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Timing advanced too much
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Holzy22
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:02 am    Post subject: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Hi all,
I have 1994 Brazilian bus, just pulled the motor upgraded the pistons and jugs to thick wall 88's. Put it all back together and timed it with my timing light. It was originally way advanced and when I brought it back to 7.5 it really ran rough. I put it back to what seems about 25-30 degree, it runs really smooth? Is this normal? Valve clearance is spot on. Could it be the new pistons/jugs and increased compression?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

try another timing light
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Holzy22
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Light is working fine, just timed my 69 GMC truck and its right on. I also physically made sure the timing marks on the pully are correct and TDC is right on the mark as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

needing more advance is usually a sign that the fuel molecules are farther apart - meaning leaner or lower compression. Either the timing marks are messed up or something else is going on. Are you sure you are on the correct wire? Sure the cam was properly times.
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Holzy22
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

yes definitely on the correct wire and marks are good as I checked piston travel on #1. The brand new plugs I put in look a little dark, could it be running too rich and be messing up the timing? I did import it from Brazil a few years ago and did not adjust the carbs for the altitude her in beautiful Alberta.
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heimlich Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

What distributor do you have?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

heimlich wrote:
What distributor do you have?

It's a Brazilian so it will start with a "9" and uses odd tune up parts.
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Holzy22
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Not sure, but its the stock HEI, no points.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Holzy22 wrote:
Not sure, but its the stock HEI, no points.


Does it have a vacuum canister on it?

Did you change anything other than piston and cylinders?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Assuming you have fuel injection is your ECU a Digfant with electronic advance? What marks are you using to set your timing?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Not EFI.
Yes I have a vacuum canister. Did not change anything else.
I had not checked the timing when I bought it, have driven it for a few years. I went to time it after re-assembly and noticed original timing was way advanced and when I brought it back to 7.5, it seem to run rougher, not as smooth as the more advanced timing.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Holzy22 wrote:

Yes I have a vacuum canister.


Is it a single vacuum canister?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

yes, the oil breather lines all connect to one cannister.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Holzy22 wrote:
yes, the oil breather lines all connect to one cannister.


Can you share a picture of everything? When you say it ran rough was it going up and down at idle? Could you get it to idle?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

I can get a photo later today.

Without touching anything after assembly I started it up and it ran well. I then checked the timing and it was way advanced, which is how i got it. when I brought it back to 7.5 it idled, but rough. I increased the idle screws to compensate. Drove it around and seemed fine this way. But I didn't think that was the right thing to do, so leaving idle where I had it now, I slowly advanced the timing back to where it was and it really ran nice and smooth, leaving me to believe it was much happier with more advance.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Do you know in millimeter/centimeter/inches how far around the pulley you moved the timing when you advanced it? Can you figure out the degrees?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Given the distance from TDC to 7.5 on the pully, I would say an extra 15 degrees so about 22-23 total.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Holzy22 wrote:
Given the distance from TDC to 7.5 on the pully, I would say an extra 15 degrees so about 22-23 total.


Is that a water cooled engine?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

No, its an original UG 1600 with dual port air cooled.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much Reply with quote

Holzy22 wrote:
No, its an original UG 1600 with dual port air cooled.


Can you clarify what UG is?

For now I wouldn't drive it until everything can be clarified. What you are telling me it sounds like you are advanced at idle at 22 degrees. That is way too much advance.

Can you pull the vacuum hose, plug the carb, and get the engine to idle at 7.5? You won't be able to rev the engine much. What can you check is if it idles better with the vacuum hose off and that will say something.
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