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Holzy22 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2023 Posts: 97 Location: AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:02 am Post subject: Timing advanced too much |
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Hi all,
I have 1994 Brazilian bus, just pulled the motor upgraded the pistons and jugs to thick wall 88's. Put it all back together and timed it with my timing light. It was originally way advanced and when I brought it back to 7.5 it really ran rough. I put it back to what seems about 25-30 degree, it runs really smooth? Is this normal? Valve clearance is spot on. Could it be the new pistons/jugs and increased compression? |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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try another timing light _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Holzy22 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2023 Posts: 97 Location: AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Light is working fine, just timed my 69 GMC truck and its right on. I also physically made sure the timing marks on the pully are correct and TDC is right on the mark as well. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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needing more advance is usually a sign that the fuel molecules are farther apart - meaning leaner or lower compression. Either the timing marks are messed up or something else is going on. Are you sure you are on the correct wire? Sure the cam was properly times. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Holzy22 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2023 Posts: 97 Location: AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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yes definitely on the correct wire and marks are good as I checked piston travel on #1. The brand new plugs I put in look a little dark, could it be running too rich and be messing up the timing? I did import it from Brazil a few years ago and did not adjust the carbs for the altitude her in beautiful Alberta. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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What distributor do you have? _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76761 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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heimlich wrote: |
What distributor do you have? |
It's a Brazilian so it will start with a "9" and uses odd tune up parts. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Holzy22 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2023 Posts: 97 Location: AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Not sure, but its the stock HEI, no points. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Holzy22 wrote: |
Not sure, but its the stock HEI, no points. |
Does it have a vacuum canister on it?
Did you change anything other than piston and cylinders? _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Assuming you have fuel injection is your ECU a Digfant with electronic advance? What marks are you using to set your timing? |
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Holzy22 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2023 Posts: 97 Location: AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Not EFI.
Yes I have a vacuum canister. Did not change anything else.
I had not checked the timing when I bought it, have driven it for a few years. I went to time it after re-assembly and noticed original timing was way advanced and when I brought it back to 7.5, it seem to run rougher, not as smooth as the more advanced timing. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Holzy22 wrote: |
Yes I have a vacuum canister. |
Is it a single vacuum canister? _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Holzy22 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2023 Posts: 97 Location: AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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yes, the oil breather lines all connect to one cannister. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Holzy22 wrote: |
yes, the oil breather lines all connect to one cannister. |
Can you share a picture of everything? When you say it ran rough was it going up and down at idle? Could you get it to idle? _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Holzy22 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2023 Posts: 97 Location: AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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I can get a photo later today.
Without touching anything after assembly I started it up and it ran well. I then checked the timing and it was way advanced, which is how i got it. when I brought it back to 7.5 it idled, but rough. I increased the idle screws to compensate. Drove it around and seemed fine this way. But I didn't think that was the right thing to do, so leaving idle where I had it now, I slowly advanced the timing back to where it was and it really ran nice and smooth, leaving me to believe it was much happier with more advance. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Do you know in millimeter/centimeter/inches how far around the pulley you moved the timing when you advanced it? Can you figure out the degrees? _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
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Holzy22 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2023 Posts: 97 Location: AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Given the distance from TDC to 7.5 on the pully, I would say an extra 15 degrees so about 22-23 total. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Holzy22 wrote: |
Given the distance from TDC to 7.5 on the pully, I would say an extra 15 degrees so about 22-23 total. |
Is that a water cooled engine? _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Holzy22 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2023 Posts: 97 Location: AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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No, its an original UG 1600 with dual port air cooled. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Timing advanced too much |
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Holzy22 wrote: |
No, its an original UG 1600 with dual port air cooled. |
Can you clarify what UG is?
For now I wouldn't drive it until everything can be clarified. What you are telling me it sounds like you are advanced at idle at 22 degrees. That is way too much advance.
Can you pull the vacuum hose, plug the carb, and get the engine to idle at 7.5? You won't be able to rev the engine much. What can you check is if it idles better with the vacuum hose off and that will say something. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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