Engine tune up and reconditioning

[coolbugfan]

I have a (new) 1979 Westfalia with the Type4 2.0L engine. I just bought it. AFAIK, the engine is all stock. It's sat for about 4 years previously. It started fine with a new battery and sounded good. It did a decent job of driving around a small suburban block but the road speed didn't let me get further than third gear.

I had a list prepared of what I'd need to give it a decent tune up. Obviously, new oil, trans oil, belt, HT leads, and spark plugs.

Also on the list was distributor cap, points, rotor, and condenser.

I'd like some advice on the last bunch of things. Should I buy them, or get electronic ignition instead? I'm asking because I always hear classic car guys talking about having to 'adjust the points again'. What's better? What's more reliable? Is the cost of one significantly more than the other? Any other considerations I haven't mentioned?

Much thanks, Sambas!

[Glenn]

The problem with the electronic points replacements is they are not as reliable as the OE ones used on production cars. And when they fail the engine just stops running with no warning.

With points, they usually give a warning.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[dodger tom]

plenty of reading material, and much debate.

i’ve had pertronix for years. course, i’ve a spare distributor with mechanical points under the rear seat just in case.

happy reading.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc...=titleonly
_________________
1978 Champaign Edition Westfalia
Would never find the time to keep up another classic air-cooled.

[Opossum]

[coolbugfan]

Okay. I'm understanding the electronic work until they don't (rather digital) and points usually go wrong more slowly and I'll probably make it home (more analog).

Good to know. Thank you.

But given that the engine runs now, and I can just stash the old points in the bus as an emergency 'get home' kit, recommendations on which way to go?

Thanks

[coolbugfan]

DodgerTom That’s a LONG readers list.

I got halfway down page one and found “electronic ignition not recommended with 2.0L FI engine” from Petronix. It started to get technical, but it seems that the old-style FI expects the signals from a points system.

So it seems points play nicer with the other engine bits, cheaper, easier to troubleshoot.

Thank you for all the help. Much appreciated. Now to figure out how to install the parts…

[Abscate]

I just went to my Doctor, gave me six months to live.

Couldn’t pay his bill, he gave me another six months.
_________________
.ssS!

[Wildthings]

Bosch points are junk (unless they have improved them since I last bought a set), so run something else. I run Echlin ventilated points and when PROPERLY installed and adjusted get 20K miles out of them without having to touch them again. Fail to use distributor cam lube or set them wrong to start with and their life can be very short. Running with bad wires and ancient/badly gapped plugs will shorten point life as well. Too tight a point gap can also burn the points quickly. New points should be set at .018-.020" to minimize arching. You can't set used points all that accurately with a feeler gauge, but new points are very easy to set that way, especially with the distributor removed from the engine. Wipe any oil and grease off the feeler gauge before use. You aren't running a V8 at 5000 rpms so maximizing dwell isn't super important.

[Glenn]

[Slip356]

78 stock FI Westy. Installed petronix ignitor several years ago. Worked well & I enjoyed no point adjustment and rock solid timing. After three or so years developed a hot start problem. Would always start but lots of starter time. Had my stock dizzy rebuilt, no change.
Went back to points and problem solved.
Bill @ Sparkwerks doesn’t like Pertronics.
When I used Pertronics I bought a second original dizzy that I installed new points, condenser & cap, test ran it on the engine & kept a mounting clamp on it so it’s timed properly if I have to use it on the side of the road.
My theory on spare parts, if you have it with you, you’ll never need it! Worked well for me over 15 yrs & 30k+ miles.

[mikedjames]

Ignitor 1 - yes : simple, reliable, about 5 components.
Ignitor 2 - no: complex, less reliable, about 25 components.

Just like modern cars. Watching a neighbour yesterday unable to drive his car because of a warning a Tire Pressure Monitoring System sensor had failed, it was telling him he had a flat while the tire was obviously still inflated the same as the the other three on his 2022 car.
_________________
Ancient vehicles and vessels

1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.

1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy

[coolbugfan]

Thank you all. Very helpful replies.

[SGKent]

[airschooled]

[Wildthings]

[SGKent]

what Mike said. Or Ebay has old stock SMP all the time that come up.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[raygreenwood]

I am not going to list part #'s because though they "should" still be the same since my NAPA/SMP points ID thread....they may not be the same.

But the technical and identification for what SMP has and sells through NAPA still holds true.

Scroll down on the first page of this link and I have pictures of all the variants and series of NAPA points and part #'s that were current in 2017.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=659700&highlight=blue+streak

There is also good info in this thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687658

Ray

[timvw7476]

Points are better, as far as the carbed buses, I haven't driven a FI bus in a decade, nice, & maybe digital works there, but points get the job done, with attention to the center of the distributor, oiling the felt to keep oil vapor from rising from the case into the distributor interior. Inspecting the carbon button & spring in the cap, applying the pencil-lead sized lube to the lobes so the rubbing block is allowed to live a full life. Do that, keep decent gaps in plugs, points go 14-15k between change outs, at that time, you usually need to swap a torn CV boot or two, plus re adjust the clutch cable, rear brake shoe stars, etc.
Buses were designed a long time ago, so be ready for the maintenance.
A solid-state digital ignition module won't change that.
edit: the points 'failure mode' is the gap closing up, leading to longer crank time to catch & run. It is a simple symptom, easy to recognize. And when it starts happening, you've got weeks, if not a month+, to take action & remedy it. : )
Gotta love Kettering (points) ignition. easy to live with. no surprises.

[danfromsyr]

I have had points just up and die
once the rub block fell off
once the points cracked the metal of the 'spring body'


so anything can and will leave you stranded if you don't
#1 know where & how to check/diagnose
#2 carry a spare part and tools so you can R&R on the shoulder of the road.
or
#3 carry a phone & AAA card... this is the method for many.


had a VW bus friend (they've owned it for 10+yrs) call me coming back from BBtB. bus died and won't restart, but then does start and dies right away.... any ideas? I live 3,ooo miles away.
ok was running ok, and now it's not? yep
ok will start but after alot of work and won't stay running? Yep
ok, you have more than 1/4 tank gas? yep
ok maybe an intake hose popped loose.."wouldn't know where to look"
ok, you have AAA? Yep.
ok call them and you'll be home by dark....
_________________

[sodbuster]

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHCS313P?impressionRank=1