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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12846
Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:22 pm Post subject: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33986
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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Typical brainless knee-jerk enviro-wokeness.
California’s 58 large chrome platers produced less than 1% of hexavalent chromium pollution, according to state data. The vast majority comes from burning fossil fuels. Cement production and lumber industries also emit more. |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15297
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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The hazardous waste in chrome plating is a major Gov't concern. The local chrome shop turns away a lot of work because they are always swamped.
I noticed one of the big California VW parts mail order places recently moved to Oklahoma.
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
Typical brainless knee-jerk enviro-wokeness.
California’s 58 large chrome platers produced less than 1% of hexavalent chromium pollution, according to state data. The vast majority comes from burning fossil fuels. Cement production and lumber industries also emit more. |
exactly.
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13263
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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I find it interesting that most people that consistently worry and even obsess about California and Californians, have never been, much less lived there. Much ado about nothing, but how else do you get subscribers ? 
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33986
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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I was born here and lived here all my life. I defend Cal often, but I'll also criticize it when it's called for, which it does with increased frequency!
Taxes, regulation, Crazy Train,... and "do something...ANYthing" legislation that "sells" in the media but does nothing for a problem... like this example. |
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NJ John
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2007
Posts: 2214
Location: HdG, MD & NJ
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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More car related companies that will be moving out of California, for sure.
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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| Erik G wrote: |
I find it interesting that most people that consistently worry and even obsess about California and Californians, have never been, much less lived there. Much ado about nothing, but how else do you get subscribers ?
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whether someone has 'been there' or not,would not preclude them from being able to use reason and logic to form a reasonable conclusion about this topic and many others. ymmv.
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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trust has nothing to do with it. from your article:
"When the levels were established in 1977, it wasn’t known that chromium-6 in drinking water is a likely carcinogen, based on tests on rats and mice."
so to reframe your point, the fact that ,at the time, the industry leaders of ONE company had this happen becasue the science given to them by the EPA no less,wasnt correct and this happened, therefore :the ENTIRE industry is purposefully misleading people to contaminate their water? haha. i dont think thats a reasonable take. no person that owns and runs a plating operation makes enough money to justify the type of behavior youre implying. its simply not worth it. between compliance, training, operational costs, trucking cossts, etc? come on. stop with the paranoia and looka t what the governor of this state is doing. he is using his greenwashing bs to try to leverage his way to the white house. as with every other politician ever from any era ever does. they sell you out and get you wound up about 'threats' and use it to justify that theyre 'saving' the trees and babies and butterflies. bs. 
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
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Pruneman99
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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| Honestly, I thought all the chrome plating was already illegal in CA. Everyone I've known has taken stuff to Tijuana. |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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| outcaststudios wrote: |
trust has nothing to do with it. from your article:
"When the levels were established in 1977, it wasn’t known that chromium-6 in drinking water is a likely carcinogen, based on tests on rats and mice."
so to reframe your point, the fact that ,at the time, the industry leaders of ONE company had this happen becasue the science given to them by the EPA no less,wasnt correct and this happened, therefore :the ENTIRE industry is purposefully misleading people to contaminate their water? haha. i dont think thats a reasonable take. no person that owns and runs a plating operation makes enough money to justify the type of behavior youre implying. its simply not worth it. between compliance, training, operational costs, trucking cossts, etc? come on. stop with the paranoia and looka t what the governor of this state is doing. he is using his greenwashing bs to try to leverage his way to the white house. as with every other politician ever from any era ever does. they sell you out and get you wound up about 'threats' and use it to justify that theyre 'saving' the trees and babies and butterflies. bs. |
The second article is from 2022. The amount of contamination across CA is more widespread that that one superfund site- isn't that obvious?
you know what's more expensive then treating and safely disposing of hazardous materials? just dumping the. that's the case every single time. its only expensive if you get caught and that's why that company got shut down. issues with this stuff has been going on for decades. Ever heard or Erin Brockovich?
Removing a substantial amount of carcinogens from anywhere is a good idea. Shiny bumpers aren't worth more than babies.
"State data shows that 129 community drinking water systems serving more than 4.1 million people have reported hexavalent chromium levels above the proposed standard. In addition, 51 systems serving institutions and businesses — including 11 schools — and three water wholesalers exceed the proposed limit. (Some wells may no longer be supplying water to residents.)
"The highest level reported by the state is in Ventura County, where one drinking water well was reported with 173 parts per billion — more than 17 times higher than the proposed standard.
Some contamination, such as in the Coachella Valley, is naturally occurring. Some, like in the San Fernando Valley, is linked to industrial contamination. And some may be a combination of both."
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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a case study in fallacies. nobody 'just dumps' anything out, for one( the price of doing so is built into the cost ,so again, ...?). the articles you posted do not say that anywhere. so i dont know where youre getting that from. more tinfoil hat stuff honestly. given that someone somewhere IS dumping their chemicals, the rate of that is far below the amount to cause the widespread damages youre implying. nobody chromes bumpers anymore for production, when was the last new car you saw with a chrome bumper?! have you ever done plating? do you know what hexovalent chromium is? do you know how much it costs to remove and treat the waste ? do you know what you know because you 'think it may be the case' or do you empirically know it? it sounds like youve not worked in plating and do not know the trade well enough to understand,which is totally reasonable. however acting like the solution is as simple is as crazy as it gets. i tend to listen to people about tpoics they are very informed about, not emotional reactions to fear and speculation. remember the state of california belives that everything known to mankind 'causes cancer" and yet the stat still cant cure cancer. this is virtue signalling at its finest , its not reality.
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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chrome plating is used in the medical industry for a variety of things like implants and the like, its used for marine castings , its used for specialty coatings on products that run water treatment facilities, hospitals, etc...
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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alcohol has been known to cause cancer in california, are they going to ban that too? it affects WAY more than the 4.1 million you cite above. if they TRULY cared about your health then why do they allow you to purchase this toxic product with reckless abandon? it gets dumped out into the ground all the time, oh but i guess it doesnt have ascary name like hexovalent chromium' so ya know...salad dressings with vinegar cause cancer. certain rocks in the earth emit radioactive isotopes, so is california going to ban the bedrock too? no more salads, no more wine, if i didnt know better id think that this is just a bad faith argument on your part.
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'69 westy
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(rip)three type III"s
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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| outcaststudios wrote: |
| a case study in fallacies. nobody 'just dumps' anything out, for one( the price of doing so is built into the cost ,so again, ...?). the articles you posted do not say that anywhere. so i dont know where youre getting that from. more tinfoil hat stuff honestly. given that someone somewhere IS dumping their chemicals, the rate of that is far below the amount to cause the widespread damages youre implying. nobody chromes bumpers anymore for production, when was the last new car you saw with a chrome bumper?! have you ever done plating? do you know what hexovalent chromium is? do you know how much it costs to remove and treat the waste ? do you know what you know because you 'think it may be the case' or do you empirically know it? it sounds like youve not worked in plating and do not know the trade well enough to understand,which is totally reasonable. however acting like the solution is as simple is as crazy as it gets. i tend to listen to people about tpoics they are very informed about, not emotional reactions to fear and speculation. remember the state of california belives that everything known to mankind 'causes cancer" and yet the stat still cant cure cancer. this is virtue signalling at its finest , its not reality. |
Full size and midsize trucks have chrome bumpers.
Im sure it is expensive to remove and treat the waste from plating. How would you explain the high concentrations of hexovalent chromium in areas that are currently of have been areas of plating shops?
The Alcohol argument is weak. I choose to consume alcohol knowing the risks. When i drink water i dont assume i could get cancer, asthma or something else like that. Unless i lived in detroit i guess. Maybe salad carries that risk because the water used to irrigate the crops has h chromium in it?
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| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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| crofty wrote: |
| outcaststudios wrote: |
| a case study in fallacies. nobody 'just dumps' anything out, for one( the price of doing so is built into the cost ,so again, ...?). the articles you posted do not say that anywhere. so i dont know where youre getting that from. more tinfoil hat stuff honestly. given that someone somewhere IS dumping their chemicals, the rate of that is far below the amount to cause the widespread damages youre implying. nobody chromes bumpers anymore for production, when was the last new car you saw with a chrome bumper?! have you ever done plating? do you know what hexovalent chromium is? do you know how much it costs to remove and treat the waste ? do you know what you know because you 'think it may be the case' or do you empirically know it? it sounds like youve not worked in plating and do not know the trade well enough to understand,which is totally reasonable. however acting like the solution is as simple is as crazy as it gets. i tend to listen to people about tpoics they are very informed about, not emotional reactions to fear and speculation. remember the state of california belives that everything known to mankind 'causes cancer" and yet the stat still cant cure cancer. this is virtue signalling at its finest , its not reality. |
Full size and midsize trucks have chrome bumpers.
Im sure it is expensive to remove and treat the waste from plating. How would you explain the high concentrations of hexovalent chromium in areas that are currently of have been areas of plating shops?
The Alcohol argument is weak. I choose to consume alcohol knowing the risks. When i drink water i dont assume i could get cancer, asthma or something else like that. Unless i lived in detroit i guess. Maybe salad carries that risk because the water used to irrigate the crops has h chromium in it? |
my friend, you have much to discover. read the back of a balsamic vinegar label and report back. so you chose to consume things that give you cancer but thats ok? im confused. take off the tinfoil hat and go read up, you have much to find.
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
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DeathRay64
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2019
Posts: 217
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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What happens when the arbitrary "standards" set by government go too far?
These rules become just another money making machine for layers... and power plays for politicians.
Same thing with the endangered species act... suddenly there are threatened subspecies everywhere. Nobody can build anything anymore because of some snail.
Every Government program gets twisted toward evil and greed, eventually.
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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| DeathRay64 wrote: |
What happens when the arbitrary "standards" set by government go too far?
These rules become just another money making machine for layers... and power plays for politicians.
Same thing with the endangered species act... suddenly there are threatened subspecies everywhere. Nobody can build anything anymore because of some snail.
Every Government program gets twisted toward evil and greed, eventually. |
lawyers are making plenty of money already, there is no reason for them to create new work. there is not ever a shortage of legal work. any good lawyer or bad one will tell you they prefer to settle and not waste time and money, in other words a lawyer makes more money when a case does not take a long time, just like anyone else. so the resoning that they need to create a false need for it by creating legal obstacles is a fallacy. politicians, sure, they make this into poilitcal gold. they also create hysteria and fear by doing so. "facts be damned i want power!"
the amount of species that has lived and died ,and gone extinct on this planet: 99.9% of ALL specied that have EVER lived are extinct already. the average lfetime of a species is between 1-10 million years. what does that tell you? it stands to reason that trying to 'save' a species from what is ultimately inevitable is a fools errand.
your last point about all governments ending up in greed and what not falls into this category:
The Worst-Case Fallacy (also, "Just in case;" "We can't afford to take chances;" "An abundance of caution;" "Better Safe than Sorry;" "Better to prevent than to lament."): A pessimistic fallacy by which one’s reasoning is based on an improbable, far-fetched or even completely imaginary worst-case scenario rather than on reality. This plays on pathos (fear) rather than reason, and is often politically motivated. E.g., "What if armed terrorists were to attack your county grain elevator tomorrow morning at dawn? Are you ready to fight back? Better stock up on assault rifles and ammunition today, just in case!" See also Scare Tactics. The opposite of this is the Positive Thinking Fallacy.
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
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DeathRay64
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2019
Posts: 217
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: California proposes to ban chrome plating |
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| outcaststudios wrote: |
lawyers are making plenty of money already, there is no reason for them to create new work. there is not ever a shortage of legal work. any good lawyer or bad one will tell you they prefer to settle and not waste time and money, in other words a lawyer makes more money when a case does not take a long time, just like anyone else. so the resoning that they need to create a false need for it by creating legal obstacles is a fallacy. |
That's a good point and I think my anger is misdirected here. It is the enviro-statists that employ the lawyers that are the problem.
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