Vanagon 91 Westfalia not starting

[ARJAYNZ]

Hi, First time visitor to this forum as my vanagon has always been reliable.
The engine will not start.
When I turn the key on the fuel pump does not start. It normally runs for 5 seconds then stops until I turn the starter on.
The engine turns over but does not go and no fuel pump on when engine turning over.
I can activate the fuel pump from terminal 85 on the fuel pump relay but it will still not start. Relays are ok.
I have checked the ohm reading from terminal 85 and terminal 3 on ECU and I have continuity.
Have replaced coil and have no voltage at the distributor on the two outer terminals.

Does this mean the ECU is faulty??

Any ideas appreciated. Thanks

[VicVan]

Hi and welcome! Just to be sure: stock engine? Auto or manual? (put this info in your signature, this way it appears on all your posts and is helpful. See my signature for example).

[ARJAYNZ]

Hi. The vanagon has a stock engine and four speed manual. The fuel pump is not running on start, and there is no spark. I can activate the fuel pump by earthing terminal 85 on the fuel pump relay but I still don't have any spark.
The van lives under cover and is not open to the elements. Thanks

[VicVan]

So no spark at the spark plug I assume. Do you have spark at the main wire that goes from coil to distributor?

Before diving into deeper diagnostics, it could be the ignition switch.
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'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH)

[ARJAYNZ]

Hi, With the ignition key on, I have 12 volts at the coil. On starting I have no spark at the plugs, distributor or the coil. Also the fuel pump is not operating.
The fuel pump relays are ok. I can operate the fuel pump by earthing terminal 85 on the relay. It appears to me that the ECU is not operating.
What else can it be ???
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91 Westfalia Vanagon, 4 speed manual and stock engine.

[Wildthings]

Have you checked the operation of the fuel injection relay? If the FI relay is not providing power to the ECU you will have no fuel and no spark. The fuel injection grounds could play a roll here as well.

[ARJAYNZ]

Hi, Thanks for your info, With the key on, I have power at both relays and cleaned and checked the earthing (grounding). I also have power to the ECU and have also cleaned and checked the earthing.
When you first turn the key on, the fuel pump should start up for about 2 seconds and then stop. This is not happening. The fuel pump has been replaced and I can activate the pump by earthing terminal 85 on the pump relay. I have 12 volts at the coil and no spark at the plugs or distributor.
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91 Westfalia Vanagon, 4 speed manual and stock engine.

[djkeev]

Pull the fuse pump relay and insert a jump wire from 30 to 87
The fuel pump should hum along non stop.
If so, try starting the engine.
Does it start?
If so you probably have a bad relay.
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[ARJAYNZ]

Hi, Thanks for you help. Yes i have remove relay and jumped 30 and 87 and the fuel pumps runs, but still will not start. Both relays have been tested OK. I have no spark either.
On checking the wiring diagram terminal 85 is the earthing (grounding) wire for the relay, coming from the ECU. If I ground 85 the fuel pump runs and have fuel at the engine.

Thanks
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91 Westfalia Vanagon, 4 speed manual and stock engine.

[DigiMatrix]

If you have power to the ECU and the fuel pump does not run for approx 2 seconds when the 12 volt power is applied (at the ECU) then it is most likely your ECU. With the age of these ECU'S, I have seen a number where the electrolytic capacitors short to ground. When this happens, you get no 5 volt supply for the microprocessor to run. Early on in the code is the 2 second fuel pump prime, and then the code waits for a hall pulse to happen so it can calculate fuel and spark timing.
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'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me

[ARJAYNZ]

Hi, Thanks for the info. Certainly points to the ECU. I always thought the ECU could be at fault after all my tests, having gone through the (westfailiat3.info)
web sight. We bought our van from Vancouver Island and it now lives in NZ
Thanks
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91 Westfalia Vanagon, 4 speed manual and stock engine.

[DigiMatrix]

If you are able, or know someone, replacing the 2 electrolytic capacitors is pretty easy and the capacitors are pretty cheap. It is worth trying before buying a spare ECU, but it is always worth carrying one as a spare. If you need some pictures, let me know by pm and I can help.
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me

[ARJAYNZ]

Hi DigiMatrix,
I will get somebody to check it, so some pictures would be most appreciated.
Thanks
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91 Westfalia Vanagon, 4 speed manual and stock engine.

[DigiMatrix]

[ARJAYNZ]

HI DigiMatrix,
Thanks for your reply. As I am a new member I am not allowed to use email.
Also if I look at your profile your email is not shown.
Also I am not able to send photo.

The ECU is a Bosch 0 261 200 284 (top line)
DIGIFANT I vw 025 906 022 D DF1 (Bottom line)

Thanks
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91 Westfalia Vanagon, 4 speed manual and stock engine.

[DuncanS]

You say you have no fuel as far as you know nor spark. The pump seems OK since you can activate it at terminal 85 and you say the relays are OK. You very well may have fuel at the injectors. When cranking the engine to try and start it do you smell fuel? If so, I would concentrate on spark. I have had this very problem for a while now and I should suggest you download the ProTraining manual. http://oldbluesblog.com/files/DigifantProTrainingManual_SingleSided.pdf Read and do the spark tests.

And https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=776188

And read all of this.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775571&highlight=

Shot gunning parts and replacement is expensive. Test, test, test first.

Duncan

[DigiMatrix]