Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
HELP! Rebuilt engine problems
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BaruchYahHallelu
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2022
Posts: 25
Location: Everywhere
BaruchYahHallelu is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

JEL91Westy wrote:
As someone that just went through almost exactly what you are describing, and after getting great advice here and from a local mechanic, I would try advancing the timing by turning the distributor 1/2” counter clockwise and seeing if it fires. That ended up being all it took in my case after going down several other roads. This is quick and easy and you should not have to crank much if it is going to go.

Good luck.


Mucho appreciatto but I have tried this all day today, thinking it could be, even messing with intake volume by the little screws. I will have to try it again a when aiI am sure nothing else can possibly be wrong (which is where you alls great minds come into play)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17014
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

Connect your timing light and have a helper attempt to start the engine while you watch for the timing mark on the pulley.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrissev2
Samba Member


Joined: March 03, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: Toronto
chrissev2 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

I had the exact same thing happen to me when I rebuilt the 1.6 on my 1980 rabbit (car is now sadly long gone).

Fought with it all day. Online, talking to people, "the distributer just has to be approximate, it will run, just not very well, when you get it going, just turn it until it sounds better..."

It would NOT run...

Neighbour comes over and looks under the hood "you got the distributer in backwards" he says. Reaches in, turns it around the other way, and says "start it up".

Starts first turn, and we trim it out with the dizzy until it runs nice, then hook the timing light up and get it perfect.

Is your distributer the right way round? (It looks the exact same when you have it turned 180 degrees off from where it is supposed to be).
_________________
1986 westfalia auto 1.9TD
2023 VW Atlas 3.6 VR6 Highline
2019 Golf Wagon 4 motion
1978 Volkswagen super beetle convertible
1992 Eurovan 2.5 5spd westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9776
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

BaruchYahHallelu wrote:
...I took on this project because I wanted to make sure I learn about the Vanagon thoroughly before I hit the road...


A very sound strategy. It may also let you try out spare parts to verify they're good. I carry spare coil, distributor, ECU, AFM, throttle body, fuel pump, ignition module, injector, ignition wires and more but all have been tried and confirmed. Even new parts can let you down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6316
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

Check your distributor drive is lining up like in the manual:
Spin the engine so that cylinder #1 opens and closes INTAKE valve.
After that the intake valve closes, keep spinning the engine so the crank pulley mark lines up with the case halves.
That's the correct TDC when you check your distributor drive position.

Do it and report back Wink
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hdenter
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2749
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
hdenter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

My first thought is are you at the correct TDC? You need to be at the top of the compression stroke, not the top of the exhaust stroke, when you make all these timing related adjustments.

It is unfortunate that you removed the Distributor Drive Gear, that wasn't necessary. But since you did, did you keep track of the two washers that go on the bottom? If they came out with the shaft, you use a couple dabs of grease to keep them on the shaft when you put it back in. If they didn't come out and stayed in the case, did they stay in place? They could easily have been disturbed if you where moving the case around while cleaning things. Check that out if you didn't account for them in your reassembly. You don't want those washers tumbling around in your case and it will mess up the drive gears if they are not in place.

Hans
_________________
'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
DanHoug
Samba Member


Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4717
Location: Bemidji, MN
DanHoug is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

those 2 dist drive washers drove me nuts, and i had the case split open! they are too large to be inserted from the top, they must be slid in thru a narrow gap in the casing as the drive gear is coming down. you can use a pushrod to swirl around the hole and center them but it still took me forever to get the gear placed correctly. hopefully, yours just stayed in place and the shaft slid right in.

during this placement ordeal, it became very clear why you don't turn the crankshaft with the drive gear in place but the distributor out. the helical gears would walk the drive upwards but not in a simple spiral.... it would lift then jam as the angles got wrong. scary stuff because that brass crankshaft drive gear is sooooo soft.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com


Last edited by DanHoug on Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hdenter
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2749
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
hdenter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

It's been at least 30 years since the last time I helped my dad build an engine. Maybe the grease was to keep the washers in place after they were dropped in and centered... In any case, the key thing was to not let them get away before the gear was back in place and to not turn the crank until the Distributor was back on top of the drive gear.

Hans
_________________
'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
chrissev2
Samba Member


Joined: March 03, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: Toronto
chrissev2 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
Check your distributor drive is lining up like in the manual:
Spin the engine so that cylinder #1 opens and closes INTAKE valve.
After that the intake valve closes, keep spinning the engine so the crank pulley mark lines up with the case halves.
That's the correct TDC when you check your distributor drive position.

Do it and report back Wink


I am thinking he may be sparking on the exhaust stroke. If Dizzy is in 180 degrees off. Everything looks good, but engine will not run. He would get a puff of smoke (there is gasoline in the cylinder) and it would sound like it wants to run, but with no compression (exhaust valve fully open when the spark comes) it could not run.
_________________
1986 westfalia auto 1.9TD
2023 VW Atlas 3.6 VR6 Highline
2019 Golf Wagon 4 motion
1978 Volkswagen super beetle convertible
1992 Eurovan 2.5 5spd westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BaruchYahHallelu
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2022
Posts: 25
Location: Everywhere
BaruchYahHallelu is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

chrissev2 wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
Check your distributor drive is lining up like in the manual:
Spin the engine so that cylinder #1 opens and closes INTAKE valve.
After that the intake valve closes, keep spinning the engine so the crank pulley mark lines up with the case halves.
That's the correct TDC when you check your distributor drive position.

Do it and report back Wink


I am thinking he may be sparking on the exhaust stroke. If Dizzy is in 180 degrees off. Everything looks good, but engine will not run. He would get a puff of smoke (there is gasoline in the cylinder) and it would sound like it wants to run, but with no compression (exhaust valve fully open when the spark comes) it could not run.


Yes I will have to check for sure, I have checked it before but it wouldn’t hurt to double check
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BaruchYahHallelu
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2022
Posts: 25
Location: Everywhere
BaruchYahHallelu is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
Check your distributor drive is lining up like in the manual:
Spin the engine so that cylinder #1 opens and closes INTAKE valve.
After that the intake valve closes, keep spinning the engine so the crank pulley mark lines up with the case halves.
That's the correct TDC when you check your distributor drive position.

Do it and report back Wink


Ok so What if the #1 intake is going in and out at a different rotation than the TDC markings on the crank? Like at a 180 to t he pulley markers? Could I have messed up my timing? I’m pretty sure the inner valve is the intake. Could I have messed up when putting the engine back on?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6316
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

BaruchYahHallelu wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
Check your distributor drive is lining up like in the manual:
Spin the engine so that cylinder #1 opens and closes INTAKE valve.
After that the intake valve closes, keep spinning the engine so the crank pulley mark lines up with the case halves.
That's the correct TDC when you check your distributor drive position.

Do it and report back Wink


Ok so What if the #1 intake is going in and out at a different rotation than the TDC markings on the crank? Like at a 180 to t he pulley markers? Could I have messed up my timing? I’m pretty sure the inner valve is the intake. Could I have messed up when putting the engine back on?


No it's fine, the inner intake valve closes way before the pulley mark, indeed like I said you have to keep spinning the engine after the intake valve has closed, it takes a while.
Hopefully the crank and cam are installed correctly Laughing
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BaruchYahHallelu
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2022
Posts: 25
Location: Everywhere
BaruchYahHallelu is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

One other thing, I’ve been following order being top right cylinder with me in the back facing the front, this is correct, right?! And to clarify what you said- once the intake goes in and out once, AND the TDC marking is aligned at the same point, that’s my true TDC that the distributor needs to be aligned, and valves start to be adjusted at… right?

If so my intake for cylinder 1 is opening AFTER the TDC mark, then closing at the 180. Also that means my distributor drive was correct (I changed it over 180 to see if I was just not understanding), and I may have a misaligned cam or something? I didn’t do a bitten end build, so it would have to be whoever did it before honestly. And it was working fine before too.

If everything I am saying above is correct, what to do then? Adjust valves offset to cam and rectify the usual timing so that it’s firing at offset? This will be ok as long as pistons are in correct position for each rotation, I assume… yes?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hdenter
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2749
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
hdenter is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

Nope, sounds like you did it 180d off. TDC for ignition occurs at the end of the compression stroke when you would want the sparkplug to fire and the begining of the power stroke. If you continue to turn the crank past TDC, both valves should remain closed for a while and as you reach the bottom of the power stroke the EXHAUST valve will open next for the exhaust stroke.

Hans
_________________
'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
hdenter
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2749
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
hdenter is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

If you are standing at the back of the vehicle looking forward, the far cylinder on the right side is #1, near right is #2, far left is #3 and near left is #4.

Hans
_________________
'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
vanis13
Samba Member


Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3082
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
vanis13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

a few good images here

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9417706


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace

www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make


Last edited by vanis13 on Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raydog
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1157
Location: Cape Cod
raydog is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

Not being a smart ass. Thought this might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix90uCZ5LuE
_________________
Come on, It's not rocket science. KISS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BaruchYahHallelu
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2022
Posts: 25
Location: Everywhere
BaruchYahHallelu is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

hdenter wrote:
Nope, sounds like you did it 180d off. TDC for ignition occurs at the end of the compression stroke when you would want the sparkplug to fire and the begining of the power stroke. If you continue to turn the crank past TDC, both valves should remain closed for a while and as you reach the bottom of the power stroke the EXHAUST valve will open next for the exhaust stroke.

Hans


Badda bing badda boom! That’s good to know! Ok me and my brother tag teamed it and found that out, we have now confirmed the proper TDC and properly did the lifter adjustments, as well as the dizzy is now proper. It didn’t start, but now I know that that is right according to what you said and how we tested it. My next thing is to test positions for the dizzy-but it got dark out and is supposed to rain and my battery needed charging so it’s a later thing now.

I do have one question for anyone willing to answer— the green book has the diz drive and rotor aligning to these imaginary lines on the engine. I’m really not sure what to go by and I would like to know how to truly know my diz drive is on the right tooth of the gear. Is there a way to measure or mark the proper tooth? I know it goes on while TDC, and it rotates to position when installed, but I know the tooth is also very important or else it fires off at wrong time yet. Should I just drop it back a tooth counter clockwise every time the rotor seems like it’s not where it needs to be for the fire off of the distributor?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BaruchYahHallelu
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2022
Posts: 25
Location: Everywhere
BaruchYahHallelu is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

raydog wrote:
Not being a smart ass. Thought this might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix90uCZ5LuE


No offense taken, first time I’ve rebuilt an engine, or really delved into vehicle work. Me and my brother (who is an aircraft mechanic) had to look at it to just see it and confirm we were right. I thought it would spray and open and fire the park at the same time, he got confused by what I said, so we both looked at a similar video earlier today, actually a big help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BaruchYahHallelu
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2022
Posts: 25
Location: Everywhere
BaruchYahHallelu is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems Reply with quote

vanis13 wrote:
a few good images here

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9417706


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Ok so I know just about everything in the image, but something that is in the book that is confusing, and is also confusing here are the marks on the pulley are switched on mine, in other words:

the v notch goes before the u notch—

does that mean my U notch is still the TDC and my V notch is still the 5 degree BTDC and it’s just different on my 1.9 or no?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.