1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions!

[AB westy nut]

Hello everyone! I thought I’d introduce myself and describe what I’ve found and will potentially be acquiring. I usually hang out over in the Type 2 forum but I’ve always had a thing for the 356. A colleague/mentor of mine that I’ve known for about 25 years would once in a while tell me about his 356 cabrio that has been sitting in pieces in his garage. He would always say how he couldn’t wait to put it all back together and drive it again, and every time it came up, I’d always try to convince him to sell it to me. Well, he’s in his mid-80’s now and he finally came around the idea of parting ways with it. Last week he brought me a binder with the maintenance history from day one, which only served to pique my interest even further. Here’s what I know about the car:

- 1963 Ruby Red/Black cabrio with matching numbers and removable hard top
- Built sometime after July 1962
- Factory installed options:
9301 antenna
9440/41 head rests
9105 Dunlop 165-15 tires
9192 black floor mats
9228 BN4 gas heater
9200/01 seatbelts
9225 Koni dampers
9510 luggage rack

It also has a trailer hitch that was installed by the dealership at the time of delivery, although I can’t find if a hitch was ever a factory option.

The car was originally purchased in Germany in October 1962 by a Canadian military officer stationed in Baden Baden. Here are a couple of images of the original order form and invoice from Porsche

He imported it to Canada in September 1965 and it was sold to its current owner for the sum of $1,025.00 in April 1973. The current owner disassembled the entire car in December 1976 to have some rust repair done and a complete paint job. When he received the car back from the body shop, he just never got around to putting it all back together. So it’s been sitting in his garage under a cover with boxes of parts inside it for nearly 50 years. He showed me a few pictures but I don’t have any to share yet. I’ll be seeing the car on Sunday and I will be sure to fully document it. I could use some advice on what specific things to look for and what to take photos of as I try to determine what to offer him for it. Thank you in advance!
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1963 Ruby Red 356 Cabriolet
1976 Sage Green Westfalia Deluxe

[Jon Schmid]

What "rust repair" was allegedly done?

[AB westy nut]

There was rust (probably through) below the doors on the rockers and longitudinals. I'll have a better sense when I see the car, but the rest of the body is solid, so I've been told.
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1963 Ruby Red 356 Cabriolet
1976 Sage Green Westfalia Deluxe

[Jon Schmid]

Almost sounds like it was stored outdoors uncovered. At a minimum, I would have the entire underside thoroughly inspected.

[AB westy nut]

It's definitely been garaged for the last 50 years but I believe it was a daily driver during its first ten years of life, and that would include the winters (hence the BN4 heater). I'll be looking for rust/rot the best that I can, and hoping that the repairs and painting that was done in '76 were done well. Apparently they were done by a former Mercedes Benz body guy, so I have some faith. Other than the underside, where else should I be looking? And what about the engine and other mechanicals? Is it safe to assume everything will need to be rebuilt after sitting for so long?
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1963 Ruby Red 356 Cabriolet
1976 Sage Green Westfalia Deluxe

[Starbucket]

It all depends on how it was prep'ed before storage, if the motor was turned often, the brakes and all rubber lines will need replacement, carbs fitted with new kits, gas tank flushed, fuel pump rebuild kit installed, Hopefully the top was protected from mice, all tires replaced, trans oil changed, new battery, polish all the wiring connectors as when they tarnish you get a lot of electrical problems. Good luck but as it sits, if almost everything is there and the rust was repaired correctly it's worth $75,000.00 US so hopefully he likes you.

[AB westy nut]

[Bugged Again]

Hopefully you’ll get a price you can live with. The obvious question mark is the repair work and current condition. You will want that original numbers matching engine. If the body isn’t too bad you could run it with another engine until building the original.

I sold my 1957 356 Type A in the early 70’s for $1,000. I sure miss that car. It was solid as a rock and never gave me issues. Oh well..

Good luck and maybe we’ll get to follow along when/if you snag it.

[AB westy nut]

Thanks Bugged. I'm hoping we can settle on a good price too. I know the kind of money it's going to take to restore it, so the more I have to play with, the better. As for the engine, I've never dealt with anything that's been sitting for 50 years. I'm going to pull the plugs and see if it turns by hand, but is it safe to say it'll be a complete rebuild, or is there a chance it could be brought to life as is?
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1963 Ruby Red 356 Cabriolet
1976 Sage Green Westfalia Deluxe

[Bugged Again]

Oh, I thought he had the engine disassembled. If it’s together that is very good. You could try to turn it after removing the plugs and giving it a little oil. Pull the valve covers when you try to rotate the engine. Look for any rust on the springs and see if the valves open and close. Those little buggers may be cause for concern. A visual check is best.

As far as seals, they gotta be as hard as a rock. Not good. Maybe tear it down to the short block and build it up from there. What a nice problem to have.

Just off the top of my head.

[Bugged Again]

If you are able to secure the car I talked with an older enthusiast who may still have the service manuals. He was selling his life’s collection. He may still have a couple of engines. I believe one is out of a super and the other is a 912. He’s a very pleasant fellow and I have his contact information. I believe he’s in Connecticut or New York. It’s been a several weeks but I’ve seen his Facebook page so he may still have things.

[AB westy nut]

Very good to know, and thanks for the tips on checking the engine over. Yes, the engine is complete just not installed. I have no idea if it was properly prepped for storage. It likely has 50 year old oil and gummed up fuel in it. What carbs should have come with it from the factory? He mentioned that it still had the Solex carbs but I thought Zeniths were original?
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1963 Ruby Red 356 Cabriolet
1976 Sage Green Westfalia Deluxe

[Bugged Again]

[Braukuche]

I’ve had a couple 356s that underwent bodywork in the 70s and it was was below the standards of today, simply because in the 70s the cars weren’t worth much so no one was willing to put the money into them for a top job. All of them had brassed in panel repairs where the beat the seam down, lapped them and filled with brass then bondoed over the mess. On the positive side they tended to use repair panels cut from donor cars vs crappy modern repair panels. If the car has been painted look for cracks and crazying. If it’s there you are looking at a total strip down and be prepared for a horror show.
In any case, a cabriolet 356 is a big money car and work restoring.
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Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now

[AB westy nut]

I'll be sure to take as many pics over, under, in and around the body as I can. I agree, I certainly don't want to invest in something that turns out to be a complete mess. Thanks for all the advice! I'll post more pics tomorrow after I check it out.
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1963 Ruby Red 356 Cabriolet
1976 Sage Green Westfalia Deluxe

[Starbucket]

Take a refrigerator magnet with you as it won't stick to a bondoed area.

[Buggeee]

I've seen a paint thickness gauge for 25 bucks on Amazon
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764

[AB westy nut]

Ok I went and had a look at the car yesterday and it was much rougher than I was hoping it would be. The paint job (if you can call it that) looked like it was done with a rattle can. Lots of overspray everywhere. The inside was completely stripped and the seats, engine, and other misc. parts were just piled inside. The engine was partly dismantled but I could move the flywheel slightly by hand. There's evidence of poorly done rust repair in the wheel wells, and the floor pan (or at least a section of it) looks to have been replaced, but the rockers, door sills and longitudinals seem solid. Lots of surface rust on the underside, in the wheel wells, and inside the rear valance behind the rear bumper. Not sure how serious of a concern this is, or how easy it would be to remove. The good news is, the outer body shell is very solid. My fridge magnet stuck to everything. Hardtop is decent. We couldn't get the front or rear lids open unfortunately. He had four boxes full of all the small parts, but no way to tell if absolutely everything is there. Anyway, here are some pics. I would love to get some feedback on the overall condition, and thoughts on what it's worth and whether or not its worth diving into!

Sitting since 1976

Nose is solid

Rear is solid

Interior is a mess. Seat pads are hard as rock, not sure if the leather is salvageable. Hinge covers are missing, presumed to be in a box.

Original mileage

Should the horn be body colour?

Front right wheel well

Is this a riveted patch above the rear shock?

Surface rust inside rear wheel well/rear valance

Driver's door edge. Should it be this ratty?

Rear jack point. Original?

Original gearbox still in place

Section of floor pan riveted and tack-welded in?

Underside of rear valance

Driver's door jamb.

Headliner in decent shape

Footwell, pedals, under dash. Lots of overspray

Original interior and engine

Original steering wheel

Rear wheel well looking forward. Is this a patch?

Driver's sill is solid
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1963 Ruby Red 356 Cabriolet
1976 Sage Green Westfalia Deluxe

[Sebastian Gaeta]

A couple of thoughts but to start let me say congrats on the find!

First and foremost you cannot get a real idea of condition unless the owner is willing to unbury it and get it out in the open where you can really look it over. Even then, no matter how good it looks be ready for LOTS of surprises in the body once it is stripped.

If it passes the eye/magnet/paint thickness test and you decide it's worth pursuing, then you need to make a complete inventory of what is included with the car.


Most 356 items are expensive to restore but if they are there it is half the battle. Nothing is more expensive than paying 100s of dollars to buy an old used part that needs restoration on top of the purchase.



I see both seats seats which is great but.... here is my list of other expensive stuff to buy just to have to refurbish.

- Anything electrical except headlight buckets.

- Top frame. If it's missing prepare to own a hardtop only car because a used top frame plus wood bows plus headliner and top is upwards of $10,000. Gulp

- Dash top

- Gauges.

- Bumpers. Good used bumpers and bumper guards are going to upwards of $1,000 shipped to you.

- dash knobs

- The Steering wheel is for a T-5 which is from '60 - '61 but I would not worry too much about that.

- Hon Button

- Exhaust

- Carbs (if the engine matches the paperwork, it is a 1600 normal so it would have Zenith's originally but many owners "upgraded" to Solexes)

- Trunk liner

- Gas tank is probably toast, repros from Stoddard et al are about $400

A couple of notes, the hardtop is the correct one with pop out rear quarters, the lower trim on it around the rear cowl is worth more than the hardtop alone! Also, if it is possible to lay out all the parts the car comes with and take some pictures, I, and I'm sure others here, will be happy to look them over and give you an idea of what else you might need.

It is hard to determine if it is "worth it" because everyone's budget and skill level is different. The more you can do yourself the cheaper it's going to be. This will not be like restoring one of our VWs, the dollars are cubic relative to even a Type 2, but I will tell you, there is nothing more magnificent than cruising a country road in a 356 cabriolet.
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Sebastian Gaeta

'63 Beetle Turkis
‘64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'66 Single Cab Velvet Green
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau

[AB westy nut]

Thanks for the input, Sebastian. It sounds like I'll need to make another trip over there to spend some quality time looking everything over. I'm sure the owner would be happy to let me. A few notes in response to your comments:

All seats are there, but it could be that only the hardware is worth salvaging.

All electrical items seem to be included in the boxes (lights, radio, etc.).

The soft top is complete and folded up inside the car. Condition unknown. Not sure about the button down cover.

I didn't see the dash top. I'll have to ask him, but I'm guessing it's also inside the car.

All gauges including spedo, tach, clock and fuel gauge are present and in very good condition.

Bumpers are there and I think I saw bumper guards in a box.

Not sure about the dash knobs. Will have to check the boxes.

Interesting about the steering wheel being from a T5. Was there a period of overlap at all during the transition from T5 to T6 where some parts may have been shared? I should also note that he has a brand new Nardi wood steering wheel still in the box that he bought way back. Not sure about the horn button. Will have to check that too.

Exhaust is in the car, sitting on the passenger side floor.

Apparently, the carbs are in the car but I didn't see them. Probably under the seats. He said they were Solexes.

I was not able to open the trunk. Any ideas how to pop it? The cable release seems to still be connected as there's a sound from the latch at the front and resistance when I pull on it. But the release has a keyhole in the end. Could it be locked somehow? Or is the fact that it still pulls out an inch or so reason to believe it's not locked?

The BN4 heater and original luggage rack are also present.

I will do my best to get back there and lay all the parts out and take more pictures. What are your thoughts on the body, or at least on the areas that were repaired? If I do end up acquiring it, I plan on doing all of the mechanical and most everything else myself. I'll leave the bodywork to the experts.

Any thoughts on a ballpark idea of what it's worth or what I should offer?
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1963 Ruby Red 356 Cabriolet
1976 Sage Green Westfalia Deluxe