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1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions!
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

If you are going to build a quality motor look at lnengineering.com for a set of "nickies" or refurbished stock cyl.s among other engine parts.
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AB westy nut
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

Ahh thanks! On the script, I was asking if the number "60" was discontinued at some point.

For the squirters, I understand that there was an option to have the nozzles heated. I'm assuming these are non-heated nozzles, correct?
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AB westy nut
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
If you are going to build a quality motor look at lnengineering.com for a set of "nickies" or refurbished stock cyl.s among other engine parts.


Excellent, I'll look them up. Thanks!
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Sebastian Gaeta
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

AB westy nut wrote:
Ahh thanks! On the script, I was asking if the number "60" was discontinued at some point.

For the squirters, I understand that there was an option to have the nozzles heated. I'm assuming these are non-heated nozzles, correct?


Actually it was the other way around, the '60 - '61 T5 cars still used the A style rear "1600" script just below the Porsche script. The "Normal" just said 1600, The "Super" said 1600 with SUPER right below it and the Super 90 said 16oo with "90" just to the right and a bit below, but they were all one piece.

Then when the T6 arrived for '62 - '63 the Porsche rear script changed a little bit and the "1600" script disappeared. It was replaced by a "60" for the normal, an "S" for the Super and a "90" for the Super 90. These sat about an inch to the right and below of the Porsche script.

As for the squirters, I have never heard of them being heated, even on the "European Heater" cars and cannot think of how they would have done that.
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'63 Beetle Turkis
‘64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
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AB westy nut
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

Sebastian Gaeta wrote:
As for the squirters, I have never heard of them being heated, even on the "European Heater" cars and cannot think of how they would have done that.


Hmmm...I swear I saw it somewhere. Or maybe that was for the electric washer pump. I must be losing it in my old age...
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

AB westy nut wrote:
Sebastian Gaeta wrote:
As for the squirters, I have never heard of them being heated, even on the "European Heater" cars and cannot think of how they would have done that.


Hmmm...I swear I saw it somewhere. Or maybe that was for the electric washer pump. I must be losing it in my old age...


The washers were activated by a foot pump attached to the driver's side foot board. The only accessory that was ever powered on a 356 was the electric sunroof in '64 and '65 which was activated by a switch under the dash below the combo gauge.
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'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
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janerick3
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

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Last edited by janerick3 on Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

[quote="janerick3"]
AB westy nut wrote:
Ahh thanks! On the script, I was asking if the number "60" was discontinued at some point.

For the squirters, I understand that there was an option to have the nozzles heated. I'm assuming these are non-heated nozzles, correct?


The "60" script was dropped late in the 1963 model year, at least on Karmann coupes. Supers and S-90s continued to have engine-type scripts installed.

The washer nozzles are T5 style. At some point, 356s got the teardrop-style nozzles, identical to those on 1961 VWs.
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Sebastian Gaeta
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

[quote="janerick3"]
janerick3 wrote:
AB westy nut wrote:
Ahh thanks! On the script, I was asking if the number "60" was discontinued at some point.

For the squirters, I understand that there was an option to have the nozzles heated. I'm assuming these are non-heated nozzles, correct?


The "60" script was dropped late in the 1963 model year, at least on Karmann coupes. Supers and S-90s continued to have engine-type scripts installed.

The washer nozzles are T5 style. At some point, 356s got the teardrop-style nozzles, identical to those on 1961 VWs.


Great data points as always Jan, thanks so much. I was not aware of them dropping the "60" late in the T6 run. The parts book does not show a cutoff by chassis number and there is no mention of that in service bulletins. Do you know an approximate date of the change? And did the late T6 Normal without the "60" simply have the Porsche script and nothing else?

And good catch on the T5 nozzles, did you see that this car also has a T5 steering wheel? If only these cars could talk, I would love to know how those ended up on this car.
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Sebastian Gaeta

'63 Beetle Turkis
‘64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'66 Single Cab Velvet Green
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau
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AB westy nut
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

I'm continually amazed at the wealth of information that the Samba community brings! I think the dropping of the '60' script was referenced in one of the books I recently read. I'll see if I can dig it up.

The parts book shows the T5 style nozzles as being for the T6 as well (pg. 485/486. Then page 489 shows the later style sprayers, also for the T6 B & C. No mention of chassis number for the switch over. I think this is where I also saw the reference to the "6v electric windscreen washing system". Specifically, item 14 on pg. 486 looks like its an electric motor or pump. How did the washer system work, exactly?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

AB westy nut wrote:
I'm continually amazed at the wealth of information that the Samba community brings! I think the dropping of the '60' script was referenced in one of the books I recently read. I'll see if I can dig it up.

The parts book shows the T5 style nozzles as being for the T6 as well (pg. 485/486. Then page 489 shows the later style sprayers, also for the T6 B & C. No mention of chassis number for the switch over. I think this is where I also saw the reference to the "6v electric windscreen washing system". Specifically, item 14 on pg. 486 looks like its an electric motor or pump. How did the washer system work, exactly?


ABWN, that is great info, I did not see it in my parts book and frankly in 30+ years of owning and servicing these cars I had never even heard of one. I looked on the Registry site and low and behold Bill Sargent in Seattle was lucky enough to obtain both the pump and the special switch. he is likely one of only a handful of people with one that is operational. See here:

https://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?p=365967&hilit=electric+washer#p365967
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'63 Beetle Turkis
‘64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'66 Single Cab Velvet Green
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau
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AB westy nut
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

Very interesting! I had a look through my little Options pamphlet and didn't see the electric pump as a factory accessory. I wonder how it was ordered?

In other news, I found the tonneau cover that covers the convertible top when it's folded down. It was in what I'm guessing is the original stowage bag. The cover is in great shape, but it's really stiff. Is there any way to recondition it to its former pliable self?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

AB westy nut wrote:
Very interesting! I had a look through my little Options pamphlet and didn't see the electric pump as a factory accessory. I wonder how it was ordered?

In other news, I found the tonneau cover that covers the convertible top when it's folded down. It was in what I'm guessing is the original stowage bag. The cover is in great shape, but it's really stiff. Is there any way to recondition it to its former pliable self?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Great find. I would say let it sit in the sun and warm up a bit, that's how we get tops to close that have been down too long.

On your boot you can see the female ends of the tenax fasteners, you inquired about the male ends in a previous post. if you look on page 2 of this thread you will see pictures of the male ends installed on my car in its disassembled state. You will notice on your boot that where it attaches inside the car at the side panels they are done with traditional snaps, which your boot has the female ends. Your interior side panels that are used with the soft top are missing the male ends of the snaps but there are holes where they used to be so replacing them will be a "snap".
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'63 Beetle Turkis
‘64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'66 Single Cab Velvet Green
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau
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janerick3
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

[quote="Sebastian Gaeta"]
janerick3 wrote:
janerick3 wrote:
AB westy nut wrote:
Ahh thanks! On the script, I was asking if the number "60" was discontinued at some point.

For the squirters, I understand that there was an option to have the nozzles heated. I'm assuming these are non-heated nozzles, correct?


The "60" script was dropped late in the 1963 model year, at least on Karmann coupes. Supers and S-90s continued to have engine-type scripts installed.

The washer nozzles are T5 style. At some point, 356s got the teardrop-style nozzles, identical to those on 1961 VWs.


Great data points as always Jan, thanks so much. I was not aware of them dropping the "60" late in the T6 run. The parts book does not show a cutoff by chassis number and there is no mention of that in service bulletins. Do you know an approximate date of the change? And did the late T6 Normal without the "60" simply have the Porsche script and nothing else?

And good catch on the T5 nozzles, did you see that this car also has a T5 steering wheel? If only these cars could talk, I would love to know how those ended up on this car.


My brother's long-departed late '63 only had the Porsche script on the back and no evidence of the "60" badge ever having been installed. I knew the Karmann badges were dropped at some point during T6 356B production (Brett Johnson's latest authenticity guide states July 1963) and my brother's car had no evidence of that badge either. Brett's book says nothing about the "60" badge, though.

I have never mentioned anything about "60" scripts being dropped during 1963, so there must be other documented,late '63 Normals out there without the badge.
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AB westy nut
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

I sifted through the boxes of parts that came with the car and I've catalogued everything. There are a LOT of parts missing for sure, mostly small stuff but a few things like, radio, climate control, windshield washer system. I'm guessing they were just lost over the years. Too bad, really. I did come across a few little parts that I can't identify, and I'm not even sure they're 356 parts. Anyone here know what these are?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

Also, back to the mystery windshield sprayers, this '63 cabriolet was 25 cars earlier than mine on the assembly line, yet it appears to have the teardrop sprayers.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-porsche-356b-cabriolet-5/

And this one was 123 earlier than mine and also has the teardrop sprayers.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-porsche-356b-cabriolet-9/

This one is 400 later than mine and has the teardrops as well.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-porsche-356-3/

So it's possible that either I have the wrong ones, or the earlier cars upgraded during restorations. The mystery continues...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

The rubber, blade-shaped piece is a headlight bucket drain tube. The rest do not appear to be 356 parts.

As for the squirters, the teardrop-shaped ones tended to rot and replacements were NLA for several years, so they likely were replaced by a used pair of T5 squirters.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

The lower left upside down question mark shaped bracket is for the additional bracing of the radio antennae.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

[quote="AB westy nut"]I sifted through the boxes of parts that came with the car and I've catalogued everything. There are a LOT of parts missing for sure, mostly small stuff but a few things like, radio, climate control, windshield washer system. I'm guessing they were just lost over the years. Too bad, really. I did come across a few little parts that I can't identify, and I'm not even sure they're 356 parts. Anyone here know what these are?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The square pieces are cabriolet top and hard top shims where they mount to the lower B pillar, the chrome piece is early 911.
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'63 Beetle Turkis
‘64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'66 Single Cab Velvet Green
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau
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AB westy nut
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: 1963 Cabrio Garage Find - Introduction and questions! Reply with quote

Thanks guys! I think I'll go with new teardrop sprayers. From what I can see, they would be the most factory-correct. Anyone have a pic of how/where the antenna bracket is mounted?
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