Valve train noise.

[3foldfolly]

A quick question someone here with high performance experience may be able to answer. I have a 1904cc Type 1 engine 74mm crank 90.5 pistons with an Engle 110,

Autocraft 1.25 to 1 rockers, steel pushrods and single heavy duty valve spring. The valve train on this engine is a bit noisier than the stock 1600 or 36hp in my other VWS. Is more valve train noise than stock normal with these components?

[Mikedrevguy]

How have you adjusting the steel push rods?
)should be a loose .000” .
Are you running lash caps with those rocker arms?
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[3foldfolly]

[modok]

performance valve trains are not always louder, some are quieter, but your combo would tend to be loud IMO.

The engle 110 is not the quietest, but not the loudest.
Steel pushrods are louder than aluminum
Those rockers are higher ratio off the seat than OE style 1.25 rockers, and aren't those needle roller too? That might be louder.

And there could be something wrong with it, bad grind on the cam, loose lifter bores, or really any part of the system can be loose that causes your lash to not be what you think it is, even the cam itself loose in it's bearings.

[UK Luke 72]

Rocker side play makes a big difference to valve train noise too.
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[Clatter]

Check to make sure the roller cages in those rockers are intact.

Have you had them apart for inspection?
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[vwracerdave]

It's not the rockers. Steel push rods will transmit more noise than aluminum. That is not saying steel push rods are louder they just transmit more noise. Aluminum is softer and will deaden sound more than steel. It's also kinda why straight cut steel cam gears are louder than aluminum cam gears.
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[Dan Ruddock]

[3foldfolly]

[3foldfolly]

[modok]

Dave is right that aluminum damps vibrations better than steel.

But it's not the main thing.
Louder when hot is because the lash is opening up.


Tight lash cold and loose hot IMO is totally backward from what you want for a street car so that's why we use aluminum pushrods.

[Dan Ruddock]

[modok]

The grind on the cam itself varies.
Wanted to share this with Dan, but might as well share with you all.


zero to .100 lift graph
web 218 VS web 110 VS engle 110

That engle 110 in that graph was the cleanest one I ever saw, those cams were from 15 or 20 year ago.

Here is a more recent engle 110 VS 218, now both on sc1 hard blanks. Seems to be far more bumpy distortion (grinder push off?)
Which makes me think they are grinding the cams with opposite rotation.
Having the closing ramp faster than the opening ramp makes no sense, oops engle.

So overall point being an engle 110 seems to be designed so the valve starts accelerating about .008 lift, so you want all the slack taken up by then, and that's often not enough. While web starts accelerating at .012

But if yOUR engle 110 is all lumpy in the wrong places because it's a ground poorly then it's not just the lash problem, you can have lots of problems at once.

[raygreenwood]

[BFB]

I run a set of empi chromoly pushrods that i swear were loader that other brands I’ve run, and I’m not anti-empi so not just saying that because of they were empi. Probably like everything thing else with this crap, lotta variables…
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[nsracing]

Where did you get those rockers? What brand?

They look like pot-metal specials - the feet areas are digging in. There were these Autocrafts before w/ rough castings.

YOu want to use the forged ones...from CB, Scat, or Berg.

I will rather use the stock ones and just change out the shafts.

[modok]

With my web 110 and aluminum pushrods, it runs quieter with lash at .006 cold than it does at .003 cold.
So that's kinda strange.
Not totally sure why but it might have to do with the fact the cam has lifters on both sides, and cam bearings aren't very tight, .004 cam bearing clearance is common.

perhaps if it doesn't have enough lash clearance then the other lobes are trying to act as the cam bearings.

[74 Thing]

Plus do 1.25 Autocraft rockers measure out to more of a ratio like high 1.3s, and with a 110 camshaft that may not be the best match.

[3foldfolly]

[3foldfolly]

Maybe I should try running stock aluminum push rods. The engine formerly had dual valve springs but I changed them out for single heavy duty springs as the duals weren't needed with the 110 cam and would only cause unnecessary tension and wear.