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Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots?
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SirDorfsalot
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:32 pm    Post subject: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Hello! Before I buy a bunch of new parts I wanted to check in here to see if I get any feedback.

I've been working on my 74 Type 1 Standard for a while now and I've finally got it to where I can drive it regularly enough to start getting the engine issues sorted out. I've got several issues I've been chasing:

1. I've replaced the carb with a rebuilt Solex 34-3 and a rebuilt 034 SVDA Distributor. I've messed with timing but I can't seem to get it to stay steady when when I rev the engine to 3k-ish RPMS to time it to 30 degrees. It runs pretty good but idles rough at startup and I can't seem to get any better than 20mpg. I'm suspecting vacuum leaks, possibly from the intake boots? Looks like they're easiest to replace with the motor out but I'd like to avoid that if I can as I have another car in the garage at the moment.

2. The previous owner replaced the exhaust with a header style that omitted parts of the heater boxes and changed the breast plate to omit the air filter preheat hose (this could be contributing to rough running at startup?). Its pretty rusty and just recently started dumping exhaust fumes into the cabin when I turn on the heat so something is leaking. The metal foil hoses going from the doghouse tin to the exhaust have cuts in it from the holes in the breast plate so that could be part of my exhaust smell problem?

Time to pull the whole system and replace with stock parts? Or is the fume leaks more of an issue with the heater boxes? They look OK from the outside.

3. I've got an oil leak somewhere. I think it could be as simple as its leaking from the U-shaped hose that goes from the oil fill port to the air intake box as its cracked and oily. Should I just replace that hose, add clamps, and call it good or am I looking at other issues like the oil cooler?

Here are some photos of what I'm working with:



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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

If you are thinking of going to all stock anyway, then do so. IMHO that would be for the best. Hang the extractor up in the shop if it is in good enough shape to be used later if need be in a pinch, or for someone you meet that needs it.

As for the intake manifold, would at least take it apart for a good cleaning. The zones the silicone seals seat onto tend to corrode up so will probably need a good cleaning/polishing up. At that point might as well install new seal and either way new gaskets.

Stock pulley would be better also.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

SirDorfsalot wrote:
I'm suspecting vacuum leaks, possibly from the intake boots?

They do "look" suspect. But you should be able to confirm vacuum leak there using aerosol starting fluid.


SirDorfsalot wrote:
Looks like they're easiest to replace with the motor out but I'd like to avoid that if I can as I have another car in the garage at the moment.

If my VW, I am NOT pulling the engine just to replace intake boots.


Disclaimer: I've never tried the "split-type" intake boots personally, but do have a set of those somewhere. They actually get good reviews on Amazon, don't know if folks here have actually tried them.
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Matt Wilson
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

You need the heater hoses hooked up if you are using heater boxes. If the exhaust is getting replaced, a stock one needs different connectors and bits to make it all work. With the aftermarket header style, you can get/make some steel flex hose connectors between the heater box and the rear tin. I like to use the stock metal connectors and get some 50mm air duct hose.

for whatever exhaust you choose, be sure to get a full set of new gaskets and hardware. I see so many of these cars assembled without washers, and folks wonder why everything rattles apart. You can get those good copper locking manifold nuts as well.

I've also had excellent luck with the 2000deg F VHT paint. Seems to last a long time on exhaust.
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SirDorfsalot
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
SirDorfsalot wrote:
I'm suspecting vacuum leaks, possibly from the intake boots?

They do "look" suspect. But you should be able to confirm vacuum leak there using aerosol starting fluid.


SirDorfsalot wrote:
Looks like they're easiest to replace with the motor out but I'd like to avoid that if I can as I have another car in the garage at the moment.

If my VW, I am NOT pulling the engine just to replace intake boots.


Disclaimer: I've never tried the "split-type" intake boots personally, but do have a set of those somewhere. They actually get good reviews on Amazon, don't know if folks here have actually tried them.


I did read a thread that gave instructions on how to replace the boots in the car and doing it while the exhaust and rear tins are out will help a smidge anyway. I haven't sprayed them yet but thats high on my list.

I've read mixed results on the split boots. I'm leaning towards the one piece.
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SirDorfsalot
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
If you are thinking of going to all stock anyway, then do so. IMHO that would be for the best. Hang the extractor up in the shop if it is in good enough shape to be used later if need be in a pinch, or for someone you meet that needs it.

As for the intake manifold, would at least take it apart for a good cleaning. The zones the silicone seals seat onto tend to corrode up so will probably need a good cleaning/polishing up. At that point might as well install new seal and either way new gaskets.

Stock pulley would be better also.


Stock is just easier for me to troubleshoot since I can eliminate any unknowns from mods. That and parts for stock will be around for a while.

I've had the boots pushed aside and the metal underneath looked OK but I can't be sure without taking it apart.

Is there a "best" replacement brand or material for the intake boots?

When I got the car it had a smaller sized "power pulley" on it. I was going to replace it with stock but this degree pulley was actually cheaper/easier to get at the time and shiny-itis got the best of me.
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SirDorfsalot
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Matt Wilson wrote:
You need the heater hoses hooked up if you are using heater boxes. If the exhaust is getting replaced, a stock one needs different connectors and bits to make it all work. With the aftermarket header style, you can get/make some steel flex hose connectors between the heater box and the rear tin. I like to use the stock metal connectors and get some 50mm air duct hose.

for whatever exhaust you choose, be sure to get a full set of new gaskets and hardware. I see so many of these cars assembled without washers, and folks wonder why everything rattles apart. You can get those good copper locking manifold nuts as well.

I've also had excellent luck with the 2000deg F VHT paint. Seems to last a long time on exhaust.


The heater hoses were hooked directly from the doghouse to the inlet on the heater boxes, which killed them from rubbing through the rear tin openings. I did see some adapters for 50ish dollars, but that would get me a chunk of the way to just replacing the whole system. Ehhhh. I don't' want to spend the money but I'm leaning towards it.

I've done some looking and the hardware install kits are pretty cheap and if I get a "kit" from the likes of CIP1 or whoever then they come with all the hardware. Are the copper nuts just less likely to become one with the exhaust studs?

The paint is a great idea! I've seen the prices on the ceramic coated exhaust and its double or triple the cost of the normal painted parts.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

SirDorfsalot wrote:

Stock is just easier for me to troubleshoot since I can eliminate any unknowns from mods. That and parts for stock will be around for a while.

I've had the boots pushed aside and the metal underneath looked OK but I can't be sure without taking it apart.

Is there a "best" replacement brand or material for the intake boots?

When I got the car it had a smaller sized "power pulley" on it. I was going to replace it with stock but this degree pulley was actually cheaper/easier to get at the time and shiny-itis got the best of me.


Yes, for most part stock is best. Installing the Maxi 2 oil filter pump is a good upgrade over stock for less debris going thru the bearings. From the image it looks like the pulley you have is the stock size for pre-1971 1500-1600cc single port VWs. The post-1970 dual port engines with dog house cooling require more air to be pumped into the fan shroud due to the then NEW DH cooling system vent air out the front (front as in closer to the front bumper) engine tin. Because of this VW came out with a larger crankshaft pulley for the dog house which turns the gen/cooling fan more RPMs than before with the smaller earlier pulleys that came out since start of 1961 model year.

The seals that are the same red/orange color should be silicone, which tend to last the longest. Any other seals you might choose, doing research on them would be best. VW used to supply flywheel seals in a dark blue rubber with the VW logo, and those lasted 30,000 to 40,000 miles when they turned hard causing leakage. With the red/orange flywheel seal we have pulled them out with over 80,000 miles with no sign of hardening.

Copper exhaust nuts do help greatly with keeping those nuts from getting stuck hard to the head studs due to corrosion. Even with copper nuts one should use a high temp anti-seize and doubly so on the A-S if using cheap steel exhaust nuts.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

I've looked into the oil pump and I see there is a version for different cams. I might have a replacement Brazil engine so I'll have to check what I have but its on my list to look into. The extra capacity and better filtering would be worth deviating from stock.

I'll have to look into the pulley, I remember when I bought it that I had to get a different size belt than most cars so that could be because its a larger than normal pulley or that was just because I'm running an alternator. I don't remember for sure but I think I can find the email with the part number to find out.

From looking online, the silicone boots are cheaper than most of the others so I guess thats a bonus.

The kit I'm looking at may or may not have copper nuts. Are they available separately or just in the exhaust install kit?

So far here is my parts list, most of it can be had from CIP1 unless there is anything in particular on my list I should get elsewhere. See anything I'm missing?


Exhaust:
-Muffler Kit: muffler, tail pipes, tail pipe clamps, muffler install kit (clamps and gaskets)
-2x muffler to heater box clamps
-2x muffler to heater hose couplers
-2x heater hoses (aluminum or german paper hoses?)
-Warm air hose (does this also need a coupler to muffler?)
-Rear engine tin with 3 holes (used from TheSamba?)
-Small tin behind crank pulley (mine is cut up by a PO)
-Tin screws (self tapping version, I’m missing a bunch)

Leaks:
-2x Intake boots
-2x Dual Port manifold base gaskets
-carb base gasket
-u-shaped rubber hose from oil fill to air filter box
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Copper exhaust nuts do help greatly with keeping those nuts from getting stuck hard to the head studs due to corrosion. Even with copper nuts one should use a high temp anti-seize and doubly so on the A-S if using cheap steel exhaust nuts.


I use brass nuts with 11mm wrench size on the exhaust studs on my two VWs. Decades ago I used copper nuts and they didn't hold as well as the brass ones.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Re :
Heater hoses vs tin ...

Get some 4mm or 7/32" vacuum hose. Split length wise, put around tin opening - make sure it fits tight. Wiggle heater hose through & secure with clamps on ends.
Hillbilly engineering. Lol
It works - mine has been on for 6 + yrs.

Intake boots :
Cut off old ones. Use soap or Vaseline (not a bunch), move split enuff to slide new intake boots onto pipe (overshoot one side till both are done), I had to loosen the bracket under the carb, & install clamps.
It's fiddly & you may invent some new curse words but I've done it many times cuz it saves an engine drop.

Best luck ... stay safe

jinx
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
Eric&Barb wrote:
Copper exhaust nuts do help greatly with keeping those nuts from getting stuck hard to the head studs due to corrosion. Even with copper nuts one should use a high temp anti-seize and doubly so on the A-S if using cheap steel exhaust nuts.


I use brass nuts with 11mm wrench size on the exhaust studs on my two VWs. Decades ago I used copper nuts and they didn't hold as well as the brass ones.


Gotcha, I found these and put them in my cart: https://www2.cip1.com/c13-43-6051/

I saw my exhaust studs are pretty rusty while I was under the car yesterday so I plan on at least putting some anti-seize on them but should I consider replacing them altogether?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

SirDorfsalot wrote:

I saw my exhaust studs are pretty rusty while I was under the car yesterday so I plan on at least putting some anti-seize on them but should I consider replacing them altogether?


Having to cut off enough stuck nuts, it is better to CYA and get the better nuts.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Welp. New studs put in the cart too then. Kind of expensive for 10 studs but I assume they're made out of special metal? Dunno. I may shop around for them too.

https://www2.cip1.com/vhd-n14-3935-10/
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

SirDorfsalot wrote:
Welp. New studs put in the cart too then. Kind of expensive for 10 studs but I assume they're made out of special metal? Dunno. I may shop around for them too.

https://www2.cip1.com/vhd-n14-3935-10/


Sorry, misread you other post. You only want to replace the head studs if you break them off or the threads are gone. Still not bad idea to have spares on hand.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Gotcha. I'll have to give the studs a closer look before I order and see what I want to do. I might as well pull the rear tin off and start spraying all the nuts with penetrant anyway.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

I would NOT even consider replacing non-broken exhaust studs. Those who have experienced these break when removing nuts will confirm this !!!!

A thread chaser die (8mm x 1.25mm) is a decent idea though.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

Ok, I'll leave well enough alone then. I do have metric dies I can chase the threads with and I'll put a little anti-seize on the threads.

I bought a basket case 1986 Pontiac Fiero about 15 years ago that I had to pull the heads when several of the studs snapped. It was not fun but it was a good learning experience. At the very least the VW heads are easy to get at and pull in comparison but its not like I want to add to my project goals if I don't have to since I just want to get the car running well enough for car show season a big VW meet in Arkansas in August.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

SirDorfsalot wrote:

So far here is my parts list, most of it can be had from CIP1 unless there is anything in particular on my list I should get elsewhere. See anything I'm missing?


Exhaust:
-Muffler Kit: muffler, tail pipes, tail pipe clamps, muffler install kit (clamps and gaskets)

This kit from CIP1 is junk. Wolfsburg West actually sells a good one.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanity Check: Time for new muffler and intake boots? Reply with quote

toxicavenger70 wrote:
SirDorfsalot wrote:

So far here is my parts list, most of it can be had from CIP1 unless there is anything in particular on my list I should get elsewhere. See anything I'm missing?


Exhaust:
-Muffler Kit: muffler, tail pipes, tail pipe clamps, muffler install kit (clamps and gaskets)

This kit from CIP1 is junk. Wolfsburg West actually sells a good one.


Ah, good to know. Thanks!

Looks like their 72-74 muffler is out of stock but they have 66-71 in stock. What's the difference? I know in 74 they got EGR and in California got dual heat risers but my car has neither so I've been feeding it parts like it was a '73.

For example, here is a 66-71 muffler from West Coast Metric. I don't' see any reason it wouldn't work on my 74 but their site says it won't.

https://www.westcoastmetric.com/i-22964674-113-251-053ak.html?q=muffler
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