1960 Beetle - Tire Setup (drums, drops, original wheels)

[RCJH77]

I don't even want to be asking a tire size question, but...I have to. Sorry.

Here's the context. I'm sending my original wheels off to be repainted. They currently have 165/80R15's on them. I'm about 80% sure I'm going to install 2.5" drop spindles before the wheels come back. I would prefer it if all four tires were the same size, but I know I'll need to go down in width and aspect ratio to avoid fender rubbing on the front.

So my question is, would it be crazy (or look weird) to use the same size tires on the front and back, or do I just need to deal with having two different sizes? Alternatively, should I skip the drop spindles and go with a narrowed adjustable beam? (Will that accomplish the same thing?)

I know most people who install drop spindles go with a little, narrow tire up front and big wide tires on the back, but I'm trying to keep my bug looking as stock/original as possible, but with a raked profile.

Example of the look I'm going for:

[6T5 square]

185/65 15's on all 4. 1960 beetle- 4" narrowed beam, 2 1/2" dropped spindles, no rake- level drop. One notch outside, one inside on the rear axle. No rubbing.

_________________
John
65 square 1500S (weezer) sold but always on my mind
60 beetle (Ned)

Quoting John Muir -- Open the rear boot. Get out the stool and sit down. Contemplate the air-cooled beauty before you. - How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive -- Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot

[RCJH77]

[RCJH77]

[splitjunkie]

[RCJH77]

Really appreciate the detailed response! This helps a ton.

[splitjunkie]

First off, anyone advising you to use a hammer to take everything apart is someone not to listen to. A hydraulic press is the only way to go. Hammering things is how you bend things. I am not impressed with what I have seen of their other videos.

That video shows exactly what I am talking about the engineering compromises on a drop spindle. The spindle is cocked so far out on that relatively thin piece of metal to get the drop. The fact that they then bore a hole in that piece and press in the spindle (axle) just has never seemed like a good idea to me. The original VW part is a forged piece of metal. Forged parts are much stronger than cast. The dropped spindles are cast with a forged or billet axle. Just not something I would be willing to rely on for one of my cars.

Having said that, there are companies selling forged drop spindles these days, so assuming the manufacturers are using the proper steel and processes, they should be much stronger than the cast with pressed in axle versions.
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[RCJH77]

When installing a new front beam, are these beam-to-body vibration damping pads necessary or helpful at all?
https://www2.cip1.com/c16-113-115a/

Also, would it be a good idea to replace these? I don't see anything particularly wrong with the originals, but wondering if it's best to replace them while you're doing the job.

Torsion arm seals:
https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-211-405-129-set/
Front beam-to-body vibration damping pads:
https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-111-899-115-apr/
Body-to-beam shock pads:
https://www2.cip1.com/c16-111-123a/

[RCJH77]

For roughly $33, I'm just going to replace them all. 👍

[6T5 square]

Replace them
_________________
John
65 square 1500S (weezer) sold but always on my mind
60 beetle (Ned)

Quoting John Muir -- Open the rear boot. Get out the stool and sit down. Contemplate the air-cooled beauty before you. - How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive -- Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot

[RCJH77]

Okay, I'm stuck again, but so close to the finish line with this beam project. I've got the beam on a jack and have positioned it so the top two bolt holes are lined up. With new vibration damping pads on the beam, and two new pads on the trunk side (under the bolt heads), the original bolts aren't reaching the threads.

If I try to raise the beam any more (via the jack), the car lifts off of the jack stands. In other words, no matter how much more I push the beam up, the pads won't compress anymore and the bolts won't reach the threads.

So my question is, do I need to buy longer beam-to-body bolts? Seems odd to me that replacing the rubber pads has made the original bolts unusable. Maybe the original pads were a softer rubber?

In its current position, the beam won't slide into its home on the chassis either, so it has to come up more (i.e. those rubber pads have to compress somehow).

[RCJH77]

I measured the original rubber pads and the new ones and there's a difference of 1/8" (OG: 1/4", NEW: 3/8"), which doesn't sound like much, but I think I need that 1/8". Wolfsburg West, CIP1, JBUGS, etc, don't offer pads thinner than 3/8", so I may have to get creative. 😖

[RCJH77]

Finally got the beam in last night. Holy crap, what a pain in the a$$ that was. I don't know if it's just a 1960 Beetle thing, but the 10mm vibration damping pads do NOT work in them. I ended up cutting them down to about 1/3rd using a bench grinder (highly recommend - worked perfectly). Even then, it was still a struggle to get the beam in. If I had to do it again, I would cut those pads down to about 1/4th the size.

Once I got the beam in place, the bottom two of the four beam bolts were hard to get started on the threads. I do think this has everything to do with the thickness of those two rubber pads, but regardless, I was able to get them in.

It should be downhill from here, but it's still a 1960, so I'm fully expecting more wonkiness. To be continued...

[splitjunkie]

Another suggestion would be to put them in the hot sun for an hour or two. The heat will make them more pliable, but you still might have had to remove some material.
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[RCJH77]

Anyone know if there's a torque spec for tie rod end bolts? Neither the Bentley or the Muir book show one. Bear in mind, these are new narrowed tie rods that came with nylon lock nuts.

[RCJH77]

I ended up just tightening the tire rod bolts until they got snug and stopped. Couldn't ever find an answer.

So here's the end result. I'm happy with the height up front. May drop the rear a little at some point, but not anytime soon. 👍

[RCJH77]

Looking back at these pictures, the front end is lower now for whatever reason (settled after getting it on the road?). Anyway, I want to raise it back to this height, but I'm having trouble finding an answer to this question:

Once the adjusters have been tightened and you've driven the car, what's the best method for loosening the adjusters? Should they be loosened with the front wheels on the ground, raised, or in some other position?

[6T5 square]

Put the car up on a set of ramps and then make your adjustments. Support the weight of the car under the "napoleon hat", make the adjustment and then lower it down again onto the ramps. That will give you some idea of how much the adjustment has changed the ride height
_________________
John
65 square 1500S (weezer) sold but always on my mind
60 beetle (Ned)

Quoting John Muir -- Open the rear boot. Get out the stool and sit down. Contemplate the air-cooled beauty before you. - How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive -- Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot