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OTTO 1303 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2020 Posts: 625 Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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mg50 wrote: |
toxicavenger70 wrote: |
Remove the whole rod and clean it really good. Next install the bushing with some wheel bearing grease. Slide the rod back in. It will be tight but take your time. Use the posted DIY by hazemat.
Oh and take your time. It can be a fustrating job if you rush it. |
Tox, I think SB rod may not remove through a convenient front hatch same as earlier beetles; But i could be wrong, haven't pulled up the trunk lining to look deeper. |
Don’t have to look under spare tire like a Standard.
The access hole for the shift rod is at the front of the frame head, below spare tire well. However, you may need to remove something that looks like this:
Good Luck _________________ 74 Super Sun Bug - OTTO
74 Super - DANZIG
74 Super - HERZOG |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7274 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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What's the proper grease to use on the shifter bushing? I was under the impression regular bearing grease will cause the nylon bushing to quickly deteriorate. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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OTTO 1303 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2020 Posts: 625 Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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Bentley instructs to “grease” entire rod and “grease” new bushing.
It doesn’t specify what kind of grease.
I used wheel bearing/multi-purpose grease in this application, but I am sure that a silicon or synthetic grease would perform just as well to lubricate the rod/bushing friction. _________________ 74 Super Sun Bug - OTTO
74 Super - DANZIG
74 Super - HERZOG |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31266 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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OTTO 1303 wrote: |
Bentley instructs to “grease” entire rod and “grease” new bushing.
It doesn’t specify what kind of grease. |
Bentley is misleading here. Only the cup where the shifter goes and the part that goes through the shift bushing need to be greased. The 3 feet or so of shift rod between the cup and the shift bushing will just "sit there" and attract dust. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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mg50 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2022 Posts: 643 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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I want to remove the quick shift kit that the PO had on the car. Is the red circled item part of the kit? And if I remove that and the base riser do I have all I need to get back to original? The bolts look longer than stock so probably came with the kit, but thinking plenty of room underneath so they won't hit anything if I use those. Or if anybody knows the stock bolt thread size. I assume it's 13mm.
BTW, I successfully replaced the front shifter bushing and the rear coupler bushings today. Wasn't too bad doing it with rod in car as suggested option. I'll post pictures when I get this shifter sorted out and make sure I can shift though all the gears.
_________________ 1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia
engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight= |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15975 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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mg50 wrote: |
I want to remove the quick shift kit that the PO had on the car. Is the red circled item part of the kit?
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Red item did come with the quick shit kit and needs to be removed if you are not using the spacer plate.
mg50 wrote: |
And if I remove that and the base riser do I have all I need to get back to original? The bolts look longer than stock so probably came with the kit, but thinking plenty of room underneath so they won't hit anything if I use those. Or if anybody knows the stock bolt thread size. I assume it's 13mm. |
There is no interference with the long front hold down bolt but the rear one will likely contact the shift rod which runs below the retained nut.
Just measure the thickness of the spacer place and remove that much from the length of the two bolts using a hacksaw or cutoff wheel. Or take one bolt to the hardware store and find the same diameter metric bolt, but shorter by about the thickness of the spacer plate. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3789 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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mg50 wrote: |
...if anybody knows the stock bolt thread size. I assume it's 13mm. |
The head is 13mm, but the proper screw specification is M8 x 20mm long, with a 1.25mm thread pitch. And it has a 21mm diameter thin flat (wavy) washer under it. _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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mg50 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2022 Posts: 643 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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[/quote]
There is no interference with the long front hold down bolt but the rear one will likely contact the shift rod which runs below the retained nut.
Just measure the thickness of the spacer place and remove that much from the length of the two bolts using a hacksaw or cutoff wheel. Or take one bolt to the hardware store and find the same diameter metric bolt, but shorter by about the thickness of the spacer plate.[/quote]
Thanks, I'll first see if I can get a clean trim with dremel cut wheel. _________________ 1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia
engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight= |
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H2OSB Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2013 Posts: 1282 Location: Modesto, CA
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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I really like the clevis pin with the locking clip Hazetguy used. After my failed solid billet coupler attempt (don't be tempted..it created a high pitched buzz that drove me to near insanity, even on short drives), I retained the shoulder bolt which fit perfectly into my old coupler, which was an original cage with urethane blocks. The beauty of the clevis pin is the incredibly low profile on either end. My shoulder bolt doesn't hit anywhere, but getting tools on both end at the same time is tricky during installation or removal. That type of clevis pin does the job perfectly and securely, but is reasonably easy to remove or install.
H2OSB _________________ (o\_i_/o) I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants. |
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mg50 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2022 Posts: 643 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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Busstom wrote: |
mg50 wrote: |
...if anybody knows the stock bolt thread size. I assume it's 13mm. |
The head is 13mm, but the proper screw specification is M8 x 20mm long, with a 1.25mm thread pitch. And it has a 21mm diameter thin flat (wavy) washer under it. |
Thanks bus tom, with those specs, might be something I can get from Ace Hdw. But will first search my junk boxes. _________________ 1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia
engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight= |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31266 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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mg50 wrote: |
Thanks, I'll first see if I can get a clean trim with dremel cut wheel. |
First thread on an 8mm x 1.25mm nut, then make the cut. Use Dremel wheel with eye protection, or just use a hacksaw. When you unscrew the nut, it will clean up the threads at the cut. I've done similar hundreds of times.... _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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OTTO 1303 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2020 Posts: 625 Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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Yes, the ball circled in red is part of kit.
Yes, the longer bolts are part of the kit.
Just something to consider-
The short shift kit probably did not contribute to the shifting issue you are correcting. For a very simple design, it does shorten the throw pretty well.
Once you get it back to original, if you feel the throw is too long, don’t hesitate to reinstall the short shift kit, as it does work very well when properly installed.
Good Luck _________________ 74 Super Sun Bug - OTTO
74 Super - DANZIG
74 Super - HERZOG |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3789 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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I don't know, I tried one back in the 80's and it gave my shifts a notchy feeling, so I removed it pretty soon after. I personally like the long smooth throw of a stock system that's been all freshened up. _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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mg50 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2022 Posts: 643 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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OTTO 1303 wrote: |
Yes, the ball circled in red is part of kit.
Yes, the longer bolts are part of the kit.
Just something to consider-
The short shift kit probably did not contribute to the shifting issue you are correcting. For a very simple design, it does shorten the throw pretty well.
Once you get it back to original, if you feel the throw is too long, don’t hesitate to reinstall the short shift kit, as it does work very well when properly installed.
Good Luck |
Yes that was my thinking, but want to feel the stock setup first. I found that the bushing had totally disintegrated and the rod was just clanging around in that keeper hole, was probably driven that way for a long time. But it still took a hard push to snap in a new one so I guess the hole was not walloped out too much. _________________ 1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia
engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight= |
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mg50 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2022 Posts: 643 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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Here are pictures for replacing shifter bushings, front bushing and back coupler bushings. With shift rod remaining in car, Super Beetle.
- Get comfortable, remove seat and put down some pads.
- Remove hatch under back seat to expose shift coupler. Remove set screw and
it's safety wire.
- Remove shifter assemble to allow rod to move forward when you unhook the coupler in back.
Can now see that bushing had fallen apart and out of the keeper hole bracket. Remains of the bushing and its ring visible next to the cup. Remove all that leftover crap. I used small vice grips and a screwdriver to twist off the old ring.
- After removing the coupler's set screw, pry the coupler forward and inch or so, off the transmission shaft. May need to tap the shift cup forward to get it loose in the rear.
Use small wrench to take the coupler apart. Hold a screwdriver at the other side of the coupler to keep it from turning. Twist the long shift rod as needed to get at it with your wrench. Slide the coupler forward enough to take it apart and remove it. Note the parts so you can replace the rubber and put it back together. Or maybe you have a new unit.
-Slide the rod forward 2 or 3 feet through the tunnel. You may be able to push it part of the way with a hand in the back hatch. You can use a pair of pliers leveraged against the front hole to "walk" the pipe forward an inch or so at a time until it will go no farther. If it gets hung up on its trip, roll the pipe to help it pass anything it may have caught on. When it's as far forward as it can go, its end will still be close to the bracket hole where the bushing is going to go, but you can just push it to one side enough to insert the new bushing.
Spread the ring to get it around the front groove in the new bushing. To insert the new bushing i rolled up some tape on my middle finger to help me guide it to the hole without dropping it. I dropped it anyway and fished it out with a magnet (bushing's metal ring). A blob of thick grease in the bushing held it on my finger. The tape didn't give me enough umph to push the bushing in, but I was able to do it with both middle fingers pressing on it through the shifter hole. It took a few minutes of rocking it side to side, and just about when you think it's not going to go, it snaps into place.
Now you have to get the pipe (the long shifter shaft) started on its return trip through the new bushing. I've read that folks sometime have a hard time doing this, but I was able to get it going without much trouble by rocking/leveragng the pliers to push it in. Now start walking the pipe backwards inch by inch with the pliers, pausing every few inches to clean and grease the pipe. I had seen a mention of using a strip of sand paper to floss the pipe as you go. I did this a bit but got bored with looping it under each time between plier pulls. I didn't feel any rusty mounds that would hinder it going through the bushing. I just wiped and lubed until I got the pipe all the way back to the coupler.
Put in the new or rebuilt coupler box the same way you took it apart and out. Twist pipe as needed to get things lined up. Note that the setscrew goes into an indention in the transmission's shaft, so line that up before screwing it down tight and putting on the safety wire.
Grease the shifter pocket. Put the shifter's plate on, oriented so the long ridge is on the passenger side. Replace the greased shifter assembly and bolt things down. Snug it down a bit with the 2 13mm bolts, but not so tight that you can't bump it into a better shifting position if needed. Things lined up for me but maybe I'm just lucky. Tighten the bolts and test drive.
_________________ 1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia
engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight= |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7274 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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Great pictures and write up of replacing the bushing. A job in my very near future. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31266 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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vamram wrote: |
Great pictures and write up of replacing the bushing. A job in my very near future. |
Nice write-up.
I did this on my '71 Super way before digital cameras. And I didn't remove the seats to do this. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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mg50 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2022 Posts: 643 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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Cusser wrote: |
vamram wrote: |
Great pictures and write up of replacing the bushing. A job in my very near future. |
Nice write-up.
I did this on my '71 Super way before digital cameras. And I didn't remove the seats to do this. |
Yea, you don't have to remove the seat but It made it easier going back and forth without working around the seat. And I needed a soft seat for my bony %$@. _________________ 1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia
engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight= |
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mg50 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2022 Posts: 643 Location: Southeast
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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Busstom wrote: |
I don't know, I tried one back in the 80's and it gave my shifts a notchy feeling, so I removed it pretty soon after. I personally like the long smooth throw of a stock system that's been all freshened up. |
"Notchy" is a good way to describe it. Although the short shifter does what it's suppose to do I returned things to stock shift.
Soooo much better with the new bushings, and not nearly as tough a job as I thought it would be. I took an afternoon to do it because I was feeling my way along very carefully, and taking photos as I went; but could do it again in less than 2 hours. _________________ 1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia
engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight= |
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toxicavenger70 Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2019 Posts: 869 Location: CO
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Shifter play - Evaluating slop in my shifter - video |
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mg50 wrote: |
toxicavenger70 wrote: |
Remove the whole rod and clean it really good. Next install the bushing with some wheel bearing grease. Slide the rod back in. It will be tight but take your time. Use the posted DIY by hazemat.
Oh and take your time. It can be a fustrating job if you rush it. |
Tox, I think SB rod may not remove through a convenient front hatch same as earlier beetles; But i could be wrong, haven't pulled up the trunk lining to look deeper. |
My bad. |
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