Measuring Tool Brands

[RWK]

[Adriel Rowley]

[Adriel Rowley]

[Adriel Rowley]

[RWK]

Dial test indicators compare, rather then measure, in the cyl. pic I zero indicator on 1 cyl then pass each of the others under the needle to compare, rather then trying to measure.. take about 30 seconds.

Notch in cylinder is for a stroker engines rod clearance

Some times you have to shorten cylinders, you just check them to one another to get them all alike, don't really care how long they are, it's more important that they are alike to seal, also important in deck height adjustment, if they are alike it rules them out as a cause of variance.
Most cylinders are very close.

If you are only measuring things and are not a machinist with the other support tools you would have very little use for a dial test indicator, prolly shouldn't have brought it up
I do use my dial test indicator for end play, (technically the proper tool for it) much smaller and more sensitive for that type of measurement... hence the word test...
The indicator is mounted on the mill spindle and spun around or inside a bore to find the center of that feature, this is the way bores centers for heads and case's are found, so that they can be enlarged, or a case stud hole to repair ect ect
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[Adriel Rowley]

[RWK]

Yes, test indicator needle is easier to get on the cyl. ledge... plunger on dial indicator won't fit, and that's what I use on the surface plate and stand.

Cylinders should all be alike which is 0, the way the factory made them, necessary when you have a tandem head otherwise head will stand off the shorter cyl. and not seal, not so important when the heads are separate like motorcycles, makes VW heads unique in that aspect, same with machining them, very important that they are the same

Those dial indicators should work well in a bore gage, good quality, appeared to be jeweled movements, should be all you need.

No end play is end play, just easier for me to use the test indicator,also the movement force is way less then a dial indicator,(sensitive), so easier to mount, smaller base is needed, again its smaller and the alignment isn't as critical, no need to be parallel with movement, the needle is adjustable on them and movement pivots or deflects rather then moves in straight line.

Again, dial test indicators are more commonly used tool in the tool and die world vs the dial indicator, just what we use all the time, difficult to find a hole center with a dial indicator, or align a part on a mill, for example.

Damn can of worms
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[raygreenwood]

The dial indicators you are showing are high quality models.

Most of the Federal "Miracle Movement" gauges use jeweled bearings, have gears that are "skeletonized" for lower mass in the gear train for more sensitive reading with lower spring pressure.
Some were available with a shock resistant rack inside.

The Federal miracle movement gauges with all of that plus hardened stainless gears were the heart of a tensiometer gauge the company I used to work for manufactured in Philadelphia. We built about 100 gauges a week through the 90s. Great indicators!

But.....as others have noted....buying USED precision tools can be hit or miss. Having seen many indicators that have age, wear from usage and damage from drop and misuse owing back in for repair and recalibration......I can tell you that old indicators with a lot of usage Nd wear get sloppy. They commonly get sloppy either in the axial direction because of wear in the rack (which is the rod that moves up and down) or in the gear train attached to that rack.

It depends on what the rack and gears are made of, whether they are plated or hardened etc. But if the indicator was used in a production shop to measure all day every day, and the gears were not hardened (say only the rack was hardened) you get wear in the gears in the specific arc sector that was the most used. It makes the gauge repeatability a little odd in certain measuring ranges.

This is not a huge deal if it's just a 0.001" indicator....but if it's a 0.0001" indicator it can be a big problem with a gauge that seems to mysteriously change reading by 0.0005 +/- just by breathing on it.

The other most common issue is radial wear to the bushing in the stem. This bushing is usually brass or bronze. If the gauge rod has been "whacked" or side loaded too many times during its life it can oval that bushing and allow to much side to side or radial movement of the rod. This causes the main rack on the rod to move laterally. So the gear contact point moves in and out of its main worn in path....causing the reading to change.

This kind of wear is also commonly caused by gauges that are mounted and used a lot with long rod extensions and bumped sideways more often. The long extension rods produce high leverage when pushed sideways.

The gist of what I am getting at is that I would suggest and rather see....you buying an affordable NEW gauge of moderate to medium quality than gambling decent money for a high quality gauge that is not only old.....either with a lot of use or many owners or questionable storage conditions .....and may no longer be accurate.

Sure....if you see really good used deals on what were known to be very high quality gauges when originally built.....and you have the money to take a risk....then go for it. But be prepared that about 1 out of 3 might actually be useful.

If for instance you run across something like a Mahr Federal or Starrett 0.0001 high end indicator used.....that started out life in the $275 to $300 range.....for $50.....great! But keep in mind that it could very easily show up with issues that make it worthless.

Ray

[Adriel Rowley]

[Adriel Rowley]

[Vanapplebomb]

[modok]

Federal makes high quality measuring devices at a high price, and there is nothing wrong with that, but I an not going to recommend it for hobby use.

95% of the people that buy that brand are going to use it until it quits working, or they quit working, so much higher chance that's it's broke, or the seller doesen't know if it works because your looking at an estate sale

[Adriel Rowley]

[Adriel Rowley]

[raygreenwood]

Modok said:

[modok]

Mitutoyo is always a good choice.
here is SPI "deluxe" indicators, 45$
They also have less expensive models for around 30$
https://www.higherprecision.com/products/indicator...m-22-299-2

[RWK]

As Ray stated, dial indicators are used en mass, as a gage maker myself, many dial indicators may be use in gages to check production parts, there may be several in a single gage that gets used 3 shifts a day, say maybe months or years or more, then when the product is obsolete, gage is scraped, sometimes the indicators are pulled off and kept, end up on used market, so beware what you buy used.
In other words dial indicators are mfg. and sold by the millions, hence the low price on some, by contrast a dial test indicator is not commonly used in production gages and mass inspection, commonly used by the person making the gage or tool, if I was you and are looking for a decent measuring tool, I would by a mid range dial bore gage, and a dial test indicator, if not,buy just a dial bore gage, the indicator in it can the be used for other measuring application, end pay, deck height, ect.
Now, on to the next issue...
The big problem with bore gages is you have to have something to set it to,
It does not measure its self, it compares what it is set to vs. what it is checking, you can check roundness in a cylinder or crank bore without a way to set it but that's about all, If you need to measure a crank bore at 70 mm you have to have something 70 mm to set it to, a mic, ring gage, gage block stack ect, this is how they are set and the quality of this item is important, a cheap mic not calibrated may throw your measurement off .1mm, this could lead to other problems...
_________________
73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[Adriel Rowley]

[Adriel Rowley]

[Adriel Rowley]