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50-60MPH Wobble
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Mark22
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:04 am    Post subject: 50-60MPH Wobble Reply with quote

I know this has been asked in the past, but I never saw a resolution posted. 0-48MPH the Thing drives smooth (as smooth as a Thing can drive) hit 50 and the wobble begins......sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't do it, sometimes it comes and goes. It goes away at about 60MPH and doesn't return until it's back down to about 50MPH.

I seem to remember seeing posts here and in other groups about a steering damper?

Tires are new and balanced, I ran them on another Thing to confirm they're OK. Ball joints are new. THere doesn't appear to be anything else loose in the front end.

Any ideas? Better yet, anyone who has actually solved this problem?

Thanks in advance.
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nthang
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had that problem with my front end. I don't know which item solved the shimmy problem at 50 mph, but one of the following did: replaced all 4 tie rod ends, adjusted the camber (notch on spindle to the front), tightened the steering box worm gear, replaced steering damper, replace all 4 ball joints. I did all of this work in one operation, so I cannot tell which one fixed your problem. I would guess that it was the old tie rod ends that made the wobble dissappear.
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Big Jim
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New tie rods with ends (old ones were rusted beyond repair), new damper, new shocks, new tires, and a trip to the alignment shop cured mine. Strangely, the tires made the biggest difference. I'm running 14x8 rims mounted on an adapter that spaces them out about 3/4". I have a hunch that affects the steering geometry somewhat.
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mstatedog
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a super B with the same problem. It was the steering damper. Take yours off and move it in and out. If there is weak resistance in one spot, its probably the damper.

dog
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chinarider
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things can be uber-sensitive to wheel balance. When you swapped the wheels/tires with another Thing, did you swap all four & keep them in their respective positions? Did you try putting the other Thing's wheels on the wobbly one to see if it still wobbled?

I would revisit the balance issue before doing anything else. I had the exact same problem a few months ago (wobble came and went at almost exactly 55mph - kind of violent at times. No wobble at lower speeds, or at higher speeds). My Thing has a new front beam, new shocks, new knuckles, etc. etc. I had new tires put on it, and they were balanced as best as the tire distributor could do it. I put in a new dampner, and it still wobbled.

After replacing everything that could possibly be replaced, I found a tire/wheel specialist here in Cali who specifically knew how to deal with VW rims (properly mounting them on a machine is half the challenge), and he re-balanced them dynamically, using the right equipment. PROBLEM SOLVED!!

It turned out to be a balance issue in my case, and surprisingly, it was one of my REAR tires that was probably causing most of the vibrations. They were all off a little, and cumulatively it added up to a significaly wobble - still that rear one was way off. The trick is to find someone who has the equipment to really do the job right, since very slight imbalances can add up, and VWs are sensitive to all four wheels being in tune.

Another piece of advice is to check your rotors when you have the wheels off, and see if they are damaged at all, as this can cause an imbalance as well. The other suspect areas (dampner, ball joints, tie rods) usually cause wobble throughout the speed range if they're worn (more at higher speeds, less at lower speeds), but you'll save yourself money and time by completely ruling out (beyond a shadow of a doubt) the balance thing.

Good luck, and please let us know how you solve it!
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radioman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark: If you are running wheel adapters....trash them and get a proper well-made wheel, not Mangel. If original or high quality wheels, find a tire place that can balance the wheels ON THE CAR. Us old timers call it "spin balancing". You won't find many but they are out there. That balances the tire, wheel and drum.Then index each wheel and drum (dots of paint are perfect) so if you have to remove one....it can go back in the exact same place. Bill
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jerrything
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:58 am    Post subject: 50-60 wobble Reply with quote

I just got my thing saturday. 64000 miles all stock & no rust even under the battery tray.
So original it looks like time was frozen.
I went to town on my maden run and when I got on the highway @ 55 it started to wobble and I drove through it to 60 and it quit,
I have had a few cars that the steering rods were loose and it did that.
Also I filled the tank and I found gas leaking out of all the rubber components.
after a while carb started to act up probably full of dirt.
What else do I have to look forward to Laughing ?

jerrything

73 all stock
second owner
in desert storage for 5 years
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7thing3
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of people saying: "nice Jeep", "what year is that" (my plate is 7THING3), "what is that Thing?" (sarcastically), and "my __________ used to have one just like that", among other things.

Also the usual VW stuff such as oil leaks, holding the door handle in while you close the door to lock it, a lighter wallet, and a ton of fun!

Welcome aboard.
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radioman
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerrything: Welcome to the world of Things! Your wobble is not unusual, Things have this often but is correctable. If your car has wheel adapters for aftermarket wheels, that is your first fix. Get rid of the adapters. Next check these in order: perhaps the tires are crapped after being stored, simple balance job, alignment, steering damper (the slender shock absorber looking thing inside and behind the passenger front wheel), tire rods and tie rod ends and ball joints. Is yours a 73 or 74? ALSO, having been stored , GO INTO THE BRAKE SYSTEM AND R&R EVERYTHING ( shoes, drums, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, inspect all the lines and flush the system with a couple quarts of brake fluid by bleeding the system until everything looks clean. Go is good, stop is better. Much more to learn and understand but you are at the right place. Feel free to contact me direct through email (see my profile) if you wish. Join the 181 Registry. I just finished a three part article for them on what I ran into with my 73 over the past two years. Shocked
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radioman
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7thing3: Just read your post....'a lighter wallet'. Boy is that ever true!!! Laughing
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jerrything
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:31 pm    Post subject: wobble Reply with quote

Radioman,
thanks for the welcoming!
It is a 73 and needs a lot of loving care. I will check the brakes and certainly all the frontend components.
The car is at my desert home and I wont be able to work on it but only on the weekends. I am in no hurry.
FYI I sold my 350Z for a perfict Thing ( and here we go
Thanks again You'll be hearing from Me.
NO RUST EVEN UNDER THE BATTERY TRAY)
and the engine even has the original filter sys and all the braded vac lines.
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chinarider
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on your new thing!

Sounds like it may have been sitting around in someone's garage for a while, and you're experiencing all the typical stuff that comes with taking a car on teh road for teh first time in a long time. Tires have probably lost some of their shape. Best thing to do is replace them - even if they're not worn, they may have dry rot. Balance is key - have them dynamically balanced, and be sure to do both front and back. That wobble is almost always exclusively due to improper tire balance.

You may want to carefully take the fuel level thing out of the tank, and take a look inside to check for dirt, sludge, etc. Be careful of course, disconnect the battery, and keep all sources of ingition away.

Good luck with it!
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jerrything
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:44 am    Post subject: gas tank Reply with quote

I ordered a new tank and rubber hoses for the fill tube
I was told to take the canister off and all the fuel hoses under the hood.
The carb is full of dirt and I will take it off and clean it
I still have the oil bath filter should I use It I keep it in the s/w desert
I was told to take the EGR valve off but it looks like the manifold is special I don’t know
one thing at a time I cant get in a hurry


jerrything
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radioman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep the oil bath cleaner and the associated hoses, particularly the hose to the oil filler tube. Keep the oil at the correct level and changed as needed. Don't know about the EGR...mine is thankfully gone! Very Happy Does your gas heater work??? I have lots of advice on that issue. Bottom line....leave it to Ark Mirvis. Smile
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radioman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing: tell me more about the "cannister under the hood" and "hoses". Are you talking about the gas tank venting system? If so get back to me. You might want to keep that area even if you don't connect it throughtout the car...ie...to the rear cannister under the right rear wheel well. Bill
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Buckly
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey you guys are talking about my thing, or it sure sounds like my thing. You've listed half of all the things I had to do within the first two weeks of ownership. I did however notice I had one bad torsion bar bearing. So while I have the arms off replacing the bearings, I'll take them in and have the ball joints pressed out and get the new ones pressed in. Oh' good luck Jerrything, have fun. Atleast I think it's fun. I guess we all do.
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jerrything
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:42 am    Post subject: gas leaks Reply with quote

Radioman
The cannister is there and all the hoses. should I keep it?
the gas leak is near the heater comming from the tank vapor hose
the hose is so rotten I am not going to touch it just replace it
It is in my garage at my desert house and I dont get there but the weekends the tank is full and I hope it hasent leaked
last night i bought an 009 dist, with a comp fire, plugs & wires
my new tank came ups with fuel lines and gaskets
Ive been told to get a 30pict 3 carb for a replacement of the 34
that might be my next event.
does this 181 have 2 brake light switches on the master cylinder?

jerrything
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Buckly
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a duel port, (intake manifold splits into two tubes where it meets the heads) I would stick with a 34pict-3 carb. And stick with the duel vacum advance distributor. I'm sure Radioman will have more to say about this as well. Trying to keep your gas tank vapor system also seems like a good idea.
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Buckly
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh by the way. it does have two brake light switches.
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radioman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gas tank venting system (the cannister and hoses) should be kept,in my opinion. The hoses can be replaced. A hose should run from the vent nipple at the filler neck, and one from the vent nipple on the right side of the tank (as you stand at the front of the car and look at it). They connect at the "t" along the rear of the "firewall" (near the heater) with the bottom of the "t" hose connecting to the cannister. From the other end (front) of the cannister a hose runs through the hole for the gas line to the heater to under the car. Under the car this descending hose connects to a lines that take the venting fumes to the cannister at the rear passnger side wheel well. Two thick hoses connect this cannister to the oil bath filter and the fan shrould. Most probably cooncetions AFTER the decending hose are gone. I only left the front hoses and just let the descending hose hang under the front of the car and vent to the air. This should vent the gas tank. At the rear, in the engine, I removed the big hose from the nipple on the right side of the shroud , plugged the nipple, and removed the big hose at the front (front is front)of the oil bath going to the cannister and plugged that nipple also. Removed the big hoses, plugged the holes in the firewall and left the old cannister in place. Yes two brake light switches. The 009 will not be a good match with the stock 34PICT carb. The combo produces a very big "flat spot" off idle. Stay in touch. Smile
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