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New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package!
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DeathBySnuSnu
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

And again my experience is not the norm.

More of the industrial 4 to 20 ma and or the smaller voltages with load cells.
Those leaf spring type connectors started and built our little company. They last about a year in the food industry before they have to be cut off and new crimps put on. Could not change to anything else because then would not be serviceable with oem parts.
I still have all the tools and ends around, but no longer have the six men I kept busy with that service work. My shop has grown into a machine/weld shop for the most part. I have several patents and my own machinery I build now. I live in a much more mechanical world now instead of electrical. I was in the robotics/automation world before starting my own.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

I worked as an industrial / commercial electrician for 30 years. A proper crimp is good but a solder connection is superior. Instead of a lug put a 6 inch tail that the end user can connect as they like.
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

bsairhead wrote:
I worked as an industrial / commercial electrician for 30 years. A proper crimp is good but a solder connection is superior. Instead of a lug put a 6 inch tail that the end user can connect as they like.


Sorry, not to get deep into this here....wrong/hijack thread...but solder is NOT superior to crimping in any way or in any wire to wire and REMOVEABLE/un-pluggable environment except for one.

That would be braided and soldered, high tension power connections in aerospace where G forces will be over 9-10 G's (see NASA docs or I can post links to them). Not aircraft...aerospace ....meaning missiles and rockets.

Solder, has voids, is brittle and has no "memory" after compaction or from expansion/contraction cycles.
Also, the alloys solder has to be made with in order to have useful temperature, flow and corrosion resistance properties make it FAR less electrically conductive than copper.

You can get away with this in rigid board because you simply design the trace widths and solder pads to be larger (either wider or thicker) at solder termination points to spread and increases current capacity. You do not always have that option in wire.

In wire harness production, solder would normally be a factor of 8X to 10X cheaper than crimping and has been largely automated (pick and place and wire guide style) in auto production lines since the late 60's into the early 70's. If it were better or more reliable for making wire harnesses they would most certainly be using it.

Thats just a statement of basic logic.

Crimped connectors been proven to be superior to solder decades ago....for REMOVEABLE wire to wire and wire to board systems.

The only other place solder is very useful and better than a crimped terminal is in static wire to board, non-removeable (meaning you never plan to unplug it).

Electrical has some differences compared to "electronic". The printed electronics industry is my business.

Again, sorry for high-jacking the thread. It was not my intent. I will shut up on the subject now but I still say get a proper modern connector system for this package. Its just very little money.

Ray
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

My experience with crimp-on connectors is that over time they fail due to corrosion. This is especially true with the connectors you buy at your favorite auto parts vendor. Trailer wiring done this way will last maybe 2 winters at best in our environment before failing. Soldering works far better but has the disadvantage of creating a stress point where the solder ends in the wire and any flexing or movement causes the wire to break off at that point. The plastic sleeves that come on the connectors are useless for supporting the wire for this purpose. I remove them and use a heat shrink tube long enough to take the stress away from the solder joint.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
My experience with crimp-on connectors is that over time they fail due to corrosion. This is especially true with the connectors you buy at your favorite auto parts vendor. Trailer wiring done this way will last maybe 2 winters at best in our environment before failing. Soldering works far better but has the disadvantage of creating a stress point where the solder ends in the wire and any flexing or movement causes the wire to break off at that point. The plastic sleeves that come on the connectors are useless for supporting the wire for this purpose. I remove them and use a heat shrink tube long enough to take the stress away from the solder joint.


So....you are talking about those red, yellow and blue insulated connectors?

Those have their uses but are not designed for use in automotive.....at all. They are not sealed at all, either by the crimping action on the wire strands nor by any mechanical sealing system. I do not even consider those in the same universe as a proper crimp connection.

It's interesting to hear in this thread....people saying that "CRIMPED" connectors fail within a couple of years in their car or in equipment where they work outside of automotive. I'm scratching my head when I hear this......until there is description.

What I find is that:

They are using crappy non-auto/non-aerospace rated terminals....like the red, yellow and blue ones...or

They are using poorly designed terminals like pretty much anything in the weatherpack brand for GM through about 2002. Good plug bodies and best seal designs in the business......but use over a dozen SINGLE CANTILEVER female terminal designs (simply to avoid, AMP, TE Connectivity, Ford, Nipon and Deutsch patents)....that no other car manufacturers used because they suck and fail quickly......or

Poor/incorrect crimping....wrong dies....wrong type of crimper....or trying to crimp open barrel terminals with the basic "D" crimper from the hardware store.....or

Poor weather sealing.....either missing or using the wrong plug assembly for the location.....or

If it's going to be a salt water or wet/wash down environment....use the terminals that have the proper plating. Virtually every terminal used by automotive manufacturers for EFI, chassis components and anything that takes dedicated....engineered .... crimp terminals is available with a range of plating types for a range of specifications.

Even the nearly 60 year terminals for D-jet injection on type 3, 4, 914, BMW, Mercedes etc....come bare phosphor bronze, tin plate, gold plate over tin, nickel plate (for salt water environments) and gold over nickel plate.

It's interesting to hear DeathBySnuSnu comment that leaf spring connectors in food service (which is a "wash down" specification)....fail about every 2 years. I would ask....whose connectors were they? What plug family were they using?

Aside from running across zillions of them in the salvage yards 40+ years old in pristine condition....aside from a million plus miles I have put on them and rarely had failures unless the seals were shot and they eventually corroded.....their track record is awesome.

But back to "WHOSE" connectors they were? If they were weatherpack.....that failure is common in that time space (up until about 2002).

Clonebug mentioned....finding that Deutsch connectors are nice/better. I agree!

This is exactly what I am speaking of. Deutsch....is TE-Connectivity. TE-Connectivity is Tyco. Tyco = AMP.
This conglomerate makes the best crimp/plug connectors in the world for EFI, automotive, aircraft and medical device......and even now....weatherpack is actually FINALLY making plug assemblies with Tyco/AMP...dual cantilever Ev-1 terminals for GM vehicles under license. It's why since the early 2000s.....GM fuel injection and other components have increased their reliability several orders of magnitude.

I always make it a point to try to get people to do the research when I see conversations where there is a "belief" that solder is better for wire to wire termination. It is not and never has been. People think crimp connection is a weak point. It is not....unless it's poorly spec'd, improperly done etc.

It took decades too long to get people in our communities to finally wrap their heads around fuel injection and electronics. VW people especially ran from fuel injection. The belief that it was low reliability.....was true...simply because they were fighting the first 60 year old connector designs.

None of those are still used and we are light years ahead of those early issues. Better designs, better crimping and better materials. And since all of this is now pretty much universal across most industries.....it's very cheap now.

I hate seeing people creating new and innovative electronic appliances, tools, sensors....products of all types.....and using antique connectors ....that while functional.....are "less than".....when they could be using far better for the same price.

Ray
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

Ray,

The truth is many are choosing a crimped cheap terminal or the same cheap terminal end with the blue/yellow/red insulation removed, soldered, shrink wrapped.

Can you show some pictures of better options, and a few links where to buy them?
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
Ray,

The truth is many are choosing a crimped cheap terminal or the same cheap terminal end with the blue/yellow/red insulation removed, soldered, shrink wrapped.

Can you show some pictures of better options, and a few links where to buy them?


Yes.
Instead of dirty ingredients up this thread even more....I just posted part one....of building a D-jet fuel injection harness....using modern plugs and terminals and wire.

I will be posting part 2 tonight and it has many links, pictures, crimping notes, links to crimping technology sites with cross section microscope shots of crimps, special wire, tools, plugs etc. I will link it here. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
oprn wrote:
My experience with crimp-on connectors is that over time they fail due to corrosion. This is especially true with the connectors you buy at your favorite auto parts vendor. Trailer wiring done this way will last maybe 2 winters at best in our environment before failing. Soldering works far better but has the disadvantage of creating a stress point where the solder ends in the wire and any flexing or movement causes the wire to break off at that point. The plastic sleeves that come on the connectors are useless for supporting the wire for this purpose. I remove them and use a heat shrink tube long enough to take the stress away from the solder joint.


So....you are talking about those red, yellow and blue insulated connectors?Ray

Yes. That is all that is readily avalable here. That is all I have ever seen used on automotive applications and... having worked for 3 different industrial electrical companies that is the only connectors I have ever seen them use and used myself at work in the last 25 years.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

I said a solder connection is superior to a crimp connection. I miss spoke. The comparison I was trying to make was between screw lug and solder. I like the idea of a cordset connection for ease of detachment and overall function.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
oprn wrote:
My experience with crimp-on connectors is that over time they fail due to corrosion. This is especially true with the connectors you buy at your favorite auto parts vendor. Trailer wiring done this way will last maybe 2 winters at best in our environment before failing. Soldering works far better but has the disadvantage of creating a stress point where the solder ends in the wire and any flexing or movement causes the wire to break off at that point. The plastic sleeves that come on the connectors are useless for supporting the wire for this purpose. I remove them and use a heat shrink tube long enough to take the stress away from the solder joint.


So....you are talking about those red, yellow and blue insulated connectors?Ray

Yes. That is all that is readily avalable here. That is all I have ever seen used on automotive applications and... having worked for 3 different industrial electrical companies that is the only connectors I have ever seen them use and used myself at work in the last 25 years.

Let's use this thread for commenting on wire connectors.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=781040
I think this thread on a new to market "Crank Trigger Ignition Package, has been clogged up with useless wire connector chat.
This thread has devolved into a discussion on wire connectors. That, in the end of things, have nothing to do with a, New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package!
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

Thanks for that link! I would have never found it in a hundred years using the search because it is in the 411/412 section and labeled D Jetronic injection.

The beauty of these threads to me is that they do morph into other things as questions are asked. Sometimes they have been covered elsewhere and sometimes not.
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

Can I start with this kit and then later add EFI or is a completely new ECU required?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pig-pen wrote:
Quick question...

does the unit have boost retard function with the MAP sensor?


Yes it does! All of this is configurable through tuner studio, which you can do basically anything with Tuner Studio.

Boost retard will be super easy to set up within the timing maps.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:15 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
This looks like a very cool system!

I have a suggestion for you that will help reliability immensely.

The screw type terminals are not a good idea. You will find that in the history of production EFI from 1966 (D-jet) until now, there has never been a millivolt sensitive application (EFI or other engine controls) that has used a screw type wire connector or inline (in the wire loom) solder....for VERY good reasons.

D-jet had its own serious issues as it aged. Every single long term reliable system (which ruled out most GM systems through the 90's) since D-jet has used a dual cantilever female terminal on a male pin.

The problem with screw terminals is that they REQUIRE the use of crimp on ferrules. This allows proper crimp compaction of the wire strands....BUT....does not get rid of the problem that screw terminals are notorious for.



Vibration and heat cycling. The heat cycling causes expansion which makes teh screw tighter...which compresses the metal ferrule harder. When it cools down and shrinks....the dent made by the screw remains deeper. Over heat cycles...with added vibration....the screw to ferrule joint gets loose and connectivity suffers. You will constantly be retightening these connectors chasing gremlins....until the ferrule gets mashed out and then you have to snip and replace. These terminals are also the bane of car stereo people and are only used on large gauge power wires like 10-8 AWG...whose ferrules are very thick walled and do not suffer as much.

These are what the ferrules look like.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I like the thought that special crimping tools are not needed but its really not an issue these days.

You can buy an excellent knock off of the Paladin 1300 crimper pliers for as low as $25. The D-sub dies can be had for $30-ish. This will do virtually all fuel injection ECU and female connector terminals on the market.
Buy a second die set for about $30-ish nd this same crimper will do any chassis and engine harness terminal in your vehicle except flag terminals.

This is a proper dual cantilever terminal used in roughly 98% of all vehicles world wide since ~1974 (except 80's through early 2000's GM...but they use them now):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The leaf springs in these micro D-sub terminals keep proper contact at any angle, vibration and heat cycling....on the males pins. Ray


I do really appreciate the comments, constructive feedback is always welcome. I mad the decision to use screw terminals for simplicity, and the fact that there are quite a few other ECU brands using screw terminal connections. I do understand that a big single connector would be more reliable in the long run, but it adds a layer of complexity that I think can become a little overwhelming.

I myself have been using screw terminal connections (the same ones) on my personal Bus for 6 months now, and those screw terminals are actually exposed to the elements a bit too (ECU and electronics are in the engine bay...less than ideal, but I've been getting away with it.
I am looking at options for ferrules that will work with this and use a simple crimper, as the addition of ferrules could help reliability. But, then again, there's possibly thousands of cars out there now running screw terminal breakout boards with no issues...

From what I've seen, as long as the ECU is put in a safe place (which it should be anyways), it shouldn't cause any problems
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

DeathBySnuSnu wrote:
Did say tuner studio.....do yes i would expect boost retard. That on board map would probably do 20 lbs.

My luck with terminal ends is vastly different than mentioned above, but a lot of my needs have been different than "normal".

My number one tip is to have the instructions in plain wording. Less or no theory....more "coil 1 to number 4 terminal. The hardest part about getting a grip on yhe megasquirt stuff was the naming of stuff.....as in at one point a part would be called by its function (map sensor) then later by it's part number, then later again by the brand manufacturer. then later by its digi key refernce.
Pick a name and always referr to it the same. Maybe whatever name it is in tuner studio.


On board MAP sensor is 200kpa (roughly 30 psi, aka, more than enough Smile )

Now, I'm not an english major or anything, but I also got really frustrated with trying to decipher documentation for megasquirt products. Trying to wire up a system using their documentation is pretty miserable. I understand how these ECUs work since they're Arduino based, so the installation instructions for this are in plain and simple english with pictures, diagrams, and labels to make everything as easy as possible...as it should be
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

clonebug wrote:
allamaabroad wrote:
slalombuggy wrote:
Cool, any plans for a TPS bracket for IDA/EPC carbs. Looks like a very well put together kit. Is there any initial maps installed or is it a complete diy? Would love to do a stealth ignition system on my 911 fanned 1968cc with 48s.

Great job!!!!


IDA/EPC throttle position sensor is now available on the site Smile

https://debbiesaircooled.com/products/debbies-crank-trigger-ignition-system?variant=45373524541742


Are you buying those warmup sensors from theDubshop.net and reselling or is it a direct copy and you are claiming it for your own????

Not only that....but you try to advertise your stuff on his FB EFI site?????

That's bullshit......


2 comments:

There's nothing special about putting a thermistor inside a 6 awg copper terminal lug. There's no secrets behind it, and people have been doing it for years before Mario decided to claim it as his idea. Thats bullshit. I decided to make mine differently by tracking down the thermistor used in GM temp sensors, and just using that instead. Makes the whole process much cheaper to do, which I pass along by charging a fraction of the cost.
Just saying, a temperature sensor for a VW really is nothing special. There's at least a dozen people out there that, me included, that could show you how to make your own and save you $50 in the process

Another thing, I would say that it's bullshit that the VW EFI Fcaebook page (Notice how Dubshop isn't in the name of the page) only allows sales of DS products. Its' very misleading, and leads a lot of the people on that page to believe that DS is the only option for Volkswagen EFI parts.

I know Mario has quite the cult following, and with the years of experience under his belt, I'm sure he deserves it. I on the other hand was pretty disappointed with the options on the market, so I decided to make my own and ended up sharing what I made because I've discovered new ways to design for manufacturing that make producing parts significatnly cheaper. I personally have a goal to make EFI, crank trigger, programmable ignition, etc more affordable, more capable, and less complicated. Yes, DS also does EFI for Vintage VW, but that doesn't mean that DS has to be the only option.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:00 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

boxer74 wrote:
Can I start with this kit and then later add EFI or is a completely new ECU required?


I have two options for you regarding that question. First, EFI is coming very very soon. I will have an option to buy a crank trigger ignition with the EFI ecu for this very reason.

The other option is this: Once I get my full line up going, I plan on providing an ECU upgrade service. Basically, all my ECUs are based on the same board, just configured differently to cut down cost and make the different versions more compact. What that allows me to do is upgrade/reconfigure crank trigger ECUs to EFI whenever you're ready to make the change.

So TLDR, the crank trigger ECU itself doesn't have the injector driving circuitry in it, so it's not able to do full EFI
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

allamaabroad wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
This looks like a very cool system!

I have a suggestion for you that will help reliability immensely.

The screw type terminals are not a good idea. You will find that in the history of production EFI from 1966 (D-jet) until now, there has never been a millivolt sensitive application (EFI or other engine controls) that has used a screw type wire connector or inline (in the wire loom) solder....for VERY good reasons.

D-jet had its own serious issues as it aged. Every single long term reliable system (which ruled out most GM systems through the 90's) since D-jet has used a dual cantilever female terminal on a male pin.

The problem with screw terminals is that they REQUIRE the use of crimp on ferrules. This allows proper crimp compaction of the wire strands....BUT....does not get rid of the problem that screw terminals are notorious for.



Vibration and heat cycling. The heat cycling causes expansion which makes teh screw tighter...which compresses the metal ferrule harder. When it cools down and shrinks....the dent made by the screw remains deeper. Over heat cycles...with added vibration....the screw to ferrule joint gets loose and connectivity suffers. You will constantly be retightening these connectors chasing gremlins....until the ferrule gets mashed out and then you have to snip and replace. These terminals are also the bane of car stereo people and are only used on large gauge power wires like 10-8 AWG...whose ferrules are very thick walled and do not suffer as much.

These are what the ferrules look like.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I like the thought that special crimping tools are not needed but its really not an issue these days.

You can buy an excellent knock off of the Paladin 1300 crimper pliers for as low as $25. The D-sub dies can be had for $30-ish. This will do virtually all fuel injection ECU and female connector terminals on the market.
Buy a second die set for about $30-ish nd this same crimper will do any chassis and engine harness terminal in your vehicle except flag terminals.

This is a proper dual cantilever terminal used in roughly 98% of all vehicles world wide since ~1974 (except 80's through early 2000's GM...but they use them now):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The leaf springs in these micro D-sub terminals keep proper contact at any angle, vibration and heat cycling....on the males pins. Ray


I do really appreciate the comments, constructive feedback is always welcome. I mad the decision to use screw terminals for simplicity, and the fact that there are quite a few other ECU brands using screw terminal connections. I do understand that a big single connector would be more reliable in the long run, but it adds a layer of complexity that I think can become a little overwhelming.

I myself have been using screw terminal connections (the same ones) on my personal Bus for 6 months now, and those screw terminals are actually exposed to the elements a bit too (ECU and electronics are in the engine bay...less than ideal, but I've been getting away with it.
I am looking at options for ferrules that will work with this and use a simple crimper, as the addition of ferrules could help reliability. But, then again, there's possibly thousands of cars out there now running screw terminal breakout boards with no issues...

From what I've seen, as long as the ECU is put in a safe place (which it should be anyways), it shouldn't cause any problems


So nice that you get what I am getting at!
That was really my main point. I was not bashing your product at all.

With regard to screw terminals, it's not that they do not work. They do. The problem is long term. And depending on how much you drive, how hard, where- climate wise and a whole slew of other variables.....the issues with connections being degraded might even be pretty short term. I have seen that with screw terminals and not even in cars.

Big stationary equipment in factories where screw terminals on PLC' were pretty much period correct for use in equipment ranging from late 70s through early to mid 90s. Oddly, most of it European. It causes lots of gremlins.

But.....in that equipment, knowing that's an issue ....when gremlins show up the first thing you do is cut power, pull each wire one by one, clip, strip and reconnect. Maintenance intensive but workable.

This is my main point. Whether screw terminals are an issue or not really depends on how well the car owner is in "tune" with their engine and it's system. When erratic or variable running happens.....you have to know your engine well enough and have kept it maintained well enough.....to very quickly "know what it's not". Is it fuel supply/pressure related? Vacuum leak/map related? Is it mechanical? Or is it just a bit of resistance on a sensor wire connection that should not be there.

I also appreciate your point in costs and the "good" plugs and connectors I have been describing.

For instance, if you chose a pretty common and affordable four pin TPS from a really common Euro car...easy to get and cheap.....and wanted to connect it to the wiring harness with its nice AMP junior timer spring terminal plug like factory.....and for some reason you could not find that plug in the junkyard......that female plug will run you roughly $25 new at most common EURO parts vendors. That socks.

A handful of sensor plug bodies could run you $125 without the connectors or wire.

That means your most affordable option for a factory style plug assembly is probably GM/Weather Pack.
I hate to say this but if the choice were between single cantilever Weather Pack spring terminals and screw terminals with crimped ferrules.....I would probably stay with screw terminals. The end result....long term electrical gremlins.....is the same with both systems. Just a bit farther down the line with Weather Pack....and it's still not dirt cheap.

But, just recently someone here introduced me to the cheaper Asian made knock offs of the AMP plug bodies. I had been avoiding those for years not even wanting to entertain the possible issues.

You know what? They are just fine and 1/5th the price. We are just talking plug bodies and seals.
The inner female terminals can be had from OEM at places like Digi-key, Mouser and even the manufacturer TE Connectivity.....for ~ 15 cents per terminal. Crimper are dirt cheap now....like $20 if you shop.

I will see what I can find for good, cheap crimp on ferrules that will work with your existing screw terminals. That alone is an order or magnitude of reliability improvement. Ray
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allamaabroad
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
allamaabroad wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
This looks like a very cool system!

I have a suggestion for you that will help reliability immensely.

The screw type terminals are not a good idea. You will find that in the history of production EFI from 1966 (D-jet) until now, there has never been a millivolt sensitive application (EFI or other engine controls) that has used a screw type wire connector or inline (in the wire loom) solder....for VERY good reasons.

D-jet had its own serious issues as it aged. Every single long term reliable system (which ruled out most GM systems through the 90's) since D-jet has used a dual cantilever female terminal on a male pin.

The problem with screw terminals is that they REQUIRE the use of crimp on ferrules. This allows proper crimp compaction of the wire strands....BUT....does not get rid of the problem that screw terminals are notorious for.



Vibration and heat cycling. The heat cycling causes expansion which makes teh screw tighter...which compresses the metal ferrule harder. When it cools down and shrinks....the dent made by the screw remains deeper. Over heat cycles...with added vibration....the screw to ferrule joint gets loose and connectivity suffers. You will constantly be retightening these connectors chasing gremlins....until the ferrule gets mashed out and then you have to snip and replace. These terminals are also the bane of car stereo people and are only used on large gauge power wires like 10-8 AWG...whose ferrules are very thick walled and do not suffer as much.

These are what the ferrules look like.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I like the thought that special crimping tools are not needed but its really not an issue these days.

You can buy an excellent knock off of the Paladin 1300 crimper pliers for as low as $25. The D-sub dies can be had for $30-ish. This will do virtually all fuel injection ECU and female connector terminals on the market.
Buy a second die set for about $30-ish nd this same crimper will do any chassis and engine harness terminal in your vehicle except flag terminals.

This is a proper dual cantilever terminal used in roughly 98% of all vehicles world wide since ~1974 (except 80's through early 2000's GM...but they use them now):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The leaf springs in these micro D-sub terminals keep proper contact at any angle, vibration and heat cycling....on the males pins. Ray


I do really appreciate the comments, constructive feedback is always welcome. I mad the decision to use screw terminals for simplicity, and the fact that there are quite a few other ECU brands using screw terminal connections. I do understand that a big single connector would be more reliable in the long run, but it adds a layer of complexity that I think can become a little overwhelming.

I myself have been using screw terminal connections (the same ones) on my personal Bus for 6 months now, and those screw terminals are actually exposed to the elements a bit too (ECU and electronics are in the engine bay...less than ideal, but I've been getting away with it.
I am looking at options for ferrules that will work with this and use a simple crimper, as the addition of ferrules could help reliability. But, then again, there's possibly thousands of cars out there now running screw terminal breakout boards with no issues...

From what I've seen, as long as the ECU is put in a safe place (which it should be anyways), it shouldn't cause any problems


So nice that you get what I am getting at!
That was really my main point. I was not bashing your product at all.

With regard to screw terminals, it's not that they do not work. They do. The problem is long term. And depending on how much you drive, how hard, where- climate wise and a whole slew of other variables.....the issues with connections being degraded might even be pretty short term. I have seen that with screw terminals and not even in cars.

Big stationary equipment in factories where screw terminals on PLC' were pretty much period correct for use in equipment ranging from late 70s through early to mid 90s. Oddly, most of it European. It causes lots of gremlins.

But.....in that equipment, knowing that's an issue ....when gremlins show up the first thing you do is cut power, pull each wire one by one, clip, strip and reconnect. Maintenance intensive but workable.

This is my main point. Whether screw terminals are an issue or not really depends on how well the car owner is in "tune" with their engine and it's system. When erratic or variable running happens.....you have to know your engine well enough and have kept it maintained well enough.....to very quickly "know what it's not". Is it fuel supply/pressure related? Vacuum leak/map related? Is it mechanical? Or is it just a bit of resistance on a sensor wire connection that should not be there.

I also appreciate your point in costs and the "good" plugs and connectors I have been describing.

For instance, if you chose a pretty common and affordable four pin TPS from a really common Euro car...easy to get and cheap.....and wanted to connect it to the wiring harness with its nice AMP junior timer spring terminal plug like factory.....and for some reason you could not find that plug in the junkyard......that female plug will run you roughly $25 new at most common EURO parts vendors. That socks.

A handful of sensor plug bodies could run you $125 without the connectors or wire.

That means your most affordable option for a factory style plug assembly is probably GM/Weather Pack.
I hate to say this but if the choice were between single cantilever Weather Pack spring terminals and screw terminals with crimped ferrules.....I would probably stay with screw terminals. The end result....long term electrical gremlins.....is the same with both systems. Just a bit farther down the line with Weather Pack....and it's still not dirt cheap.

But, just recently someone here introduced me to the cheaper Asian made knock offs of the AMP plug bodies. I had been avoiding those for years not even wanting to entertain the possible issues.

You know what? They are just fine and 1/5th the price. We are just talking plug bodies and seals.
The inner female terminals can be had from OEM at places like Digi-key, Mouser and even the manufacturer TE Connectivity.....for ~ 15 cents per terminal. Crimper are dirt cheap now....like $20 if you shop.

I will see what I can find for good, cheap crimp on ferrules that will work with your existing screw terminals. That alone is an order or magnitude of reliability improvement. Ray


This quote is getting really long…
But I appreciate you taking the time to try to find a better solution! I’ve ordered a couple different ferrules to try out for the different connections…hopefully one of them works.

Quite honestly, I knew that I didn’t really like the bare wire strands going straight into the screw terminals, but I couldn’t remember the name of the thing I needed…ferrules!

And yeah, what you said about OEM connectors is absolutely true. That’s why I’ve been especially careful with picking out components to make sure that I can get good quality connectors for them. Honestly, I feel like I usually look for the connector, then I find the component that will work with it.
So far, I’ve been able to find almost all the things I need with EV1 style connectors on them, which I really like and there’s plenty of high quality aftermarket EV1 connectors available.

Once again, thanks for the very helpful comments!
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94touring
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Joined: October 24, 2020
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Location: Oklahoma - OK
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: New Affordable Crank Trigger Ignition Package! Reply with quote

We should rename this to "all about ferrules." That being said, I was about to buy a cb trigger kit but they're out of stock so figured I'd give this fellow a try. I've been wanting better vacuum advance control and a TPS should do that for me. And, I even bought a bag of ferrules and crimp tool to go with it.
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