cranky marker lights

[scottyrocks]

After I cleaned up my chrome headlight rings, I put them back on the headlight assembly and reinstalled them in their holes.

Headlights work fine. The driver's side marker light worked fine. The passenger side marker light didn't work.

I pulled it out and reversed the wires (green and white). Now neither marker light works.

I put the wires on the passenger side back the way they were. Neither side marker light still don't work.

Everything (both headlights, high and low beams, and the marker lights) worked before pulled the headlights out to clean up the chrome rings. Now the marker lights are acting funky.

I looked at the wiring diagram (I am not an electrician). It appears to show one wire to each marker light labeled '58.' My marker lights have two wires.

Before I pull my lights apart, can anyone tell me if I've missed something obvious? If not, I know the route I should take, but if I can avoid taking the headlight assemblies apart unnecessarily I'd like to avoid it.

Thank you.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch'

[ashman40]

Not clear which model year your car is?? You mentioned a '63 in previous threads? Is this the car you are having trouble with? It is good to add the model of your car into your signature so you never forget to include it.

The '63 wiring diagram indicates a single grey wire from the headlight switch 58 terminal to power both fuse #6 & #7 (parking light fuses) Have you checked if either/both of these fuses are blown?

On other model years there was a 57 terminal on the headlight switch which powered the front parking lights ONLY when the headlight switch was in the 1st position. When the switch was moved to the 2nd position headlights) the front parking lights were powered OFF. Confirm if your front parking lights are powered from the fuse box along with the rear parking lights or were they powered directly from the headlight switch. Warning, this 57 terminal was not protected by a fuse. If you miswired the front parking lights and directly grounded the parking light grey wire you may have damaged the headlight switch. If you have a 57 terminal on your headlight switch and the wires are attached here, confirm there is 12v on the terminal when the switch is in the 1st position.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[scottyrocks]

Yes, more info would probably have been a good idea.

The car is a '63 Beetle. I had replaced the headlight switch previously, and the new one doesn't turn off the marker lights when the headlights are on (knob pulled all the way out). At any rate, I checked the marker lights with the switch in both positions. One side worked, the other didn't, and when I reversed the wires on the one that didn't work, neither worked. When I put them back to the way they were before I reversed them neither worked. The headlights work.

Aside from the main headlight plugs, all I had dis- and reconnected were the marker lights. Does it make a difference which way those two (green and white) wires are attached?

I will check the fuses. I just find it unlikely that both fuses or bulbs died at the same time, the second bulb only just after switching wires on the opposite housing.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch'

[ashman40]

After you confirm the fuses for the parking lights are good, start by checking for power along the front parking light circuits. With the parking lights ON, work your way from the fuse box following the wires to the front corners. Test for power on the wires along the way.

The stock wiring diagram shows these front parking light wires as solid grey wires running from the fuse box all the way to the bulbs. This is for both the LF and RF parking lights. No indications of a green or white wire in the wiring diagram? Maybe the PO replaced the stock colored wires. If you're wires are a different color you will need to trace them back to see where they come from.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[scottyrocks]

Thank you for the step by step.

Earlier today I confirmed the fuses are good.

Then I traced the wires and they do go back to the proper fuses as marked on the wiring diagram.

Unfortunately I have not been able to find a working test light, or gauge in my garage that goes down to low enough voltage. I'll pick up a new one at the store tomorrow and get on it on Tuesday.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch'

[ashman40]

Looking at the '63 wiring diagram...

You can see there are only 3 colored wires running to the headlight assembly:

white - high beam
yellow - low beam
grey - parking light

The brown arrows extending to the left/right indicate grounds. These early light assemblies grounded thru the fenders to the body. Not the best way to ground the lights. Later, VW added a dedicated ground wire which terminated inside the trunk where it was better protected from the elements.

You need to ID all of the wires coming from the headlight assemblies so you know what each wire does. This is particularly important if the PO changed the wire colors from stock.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[glutamodo]

There actually were brown ground wires going to the parking light bulbs. That is why they have two terminals on them. Screw terminals or later on with push terminals.

Why? Well the glass is surrounded by a formed rubber gasket. And then there is a rubber gasket (seldom seen any more) between the headlight bucket and the fender. And the mounting screw had a big plastic spacer under it. So ground was not assured.

These are actually PARKING LIGHT BULBS, not marker lights. They are nearly invisible when the headlights are on and that is why VW had it wired so they did not come on a the same time.
_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.

[ashman40]

Thanks glutamodo. Very useful info. It looks like the parking light ground was daisy chained off the headlight ground wire (brown)?
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[scottyrocks]

[KTPhil]

I found original parking lights were not fused on some early models! I guess they figured it was such low current, but not a good idea! But then, there was no protection for the ignition wire, either...
I moved the front parking bulb source wires to a splitter so they came on with the rear taillights and was fused.
This also meant they stayed on with the headlights. Very useful if a headlight goes out... you don't look like a motorcycle to oncoming traffic!

[scottyrocks]

Okay, so I've made some progress.

As I wrote earlier, I has previously replaced the headlight switch. Thank you, Phil, for reminding me that I spliced a fuse into the parking light line when I replaced the light switch, thanks to someone here who had suggested it many moons ago. As to why I didn't remember, don't get me started. haha

So, for a long time now, the parking lights were working fine, either with or without the headlights. I pulled the fuse and it looked broken, so I put another one in. It worked for a few seconds and then popped, as did another. I could actually hear them break.

The first was 5A, which the car ran on for years. The next two were 7.5A. The fuses under the dash are 8A minimum.

Did I just answer my own question? The next size up I have is 15A. Is 15A too high? Will I melt a wire with it? Is 8A the answer? Should I try a 15A? If there is a short I suppose this is not a good idea. But then again, it worked fine with a 5A. So why not now?

I checked the two wires carefully so that they're not touching each other when I tighten them down, although the base of the parking light attachment screws seems to be connected to both wires, which seems odd to me.

Where could a short have been created when all I did was pull the headlights? It's two plugs and 4 wires.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch'

[ashman40]

[scottyrocks]

Yes, there is a non-stock fuse holder, but it is on the green line in between the light switch and the bulbs.

Here is the setup:

There was a discussion here about adding this fuse/holder to the parking lights. I don't remember the details now, and and maybe I misinterpreted, but I didn't see the point of putting it on the short line in between the switch and the main fuse box, so it went on the green line directly to the lights.

Btw, my current replacement switch has no 57 terminal, which is why the parking lights stay on with the headlights (when they were working).

[KTPhil]

Loose wire strands can sometimes short to ground or each other, with a high resistance so it's hard to track, but still blow fuses. A common fix is to solder the wire strands together so the hold-down screw doesn't fray the ends and cause this.

A poor ground can also cause this by running through other bulb filaments, which draws more current, blowing the fuse.

Lastly, poor bulb/socket connections can cause shorts, too. The spring contact gets bent, misaligned, and can short to the holder or to the bulb case.

[scottyrocks]

Thank you, I will check and address all of that Friday, as well.

Btw, do I have the correct color wires to the correct screws?
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch'

[KTPhil]

Brown is ground, and should connect to the headlight connector's brown/ground wire.
The other (green for you), is the switched hot lead.

[scottyrocks]

So in the two pics above, are the green wires in the right place, or should I switch them with the white and brown wires, respectively?
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch'

[mukluk]

[scottyrocks]

The wires were reversed.

When one side only was reversed it took a few seconds for the fuse to pop. When both sides were reversed it popped immediately. With the wires correctly installed, and a 5A fuse installed, all is fine.

My thanks to ash, mukluk, phil and glut for guidance.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch'

[glutamodo]

Just looking at this again a few days later.

Yeah, had I seen it earlier I would have instantly posted that the wires were backwards.

The image I posted above, with the wires attached, that is my own 62 Beetle. I kind of hoped that it would be enough to illustrate which terminal was which. I suppose I should have stated that you want power going to the middle of the bulb and the ground to the outside/socket side.

And yes, VW did kind of muff this up with Terminal 57 not having fuses. This led to a lot of toasted wires over the years. Why would they allow such a thing? I think I understand actually. As the middle position of the headlight switch really is not used very often, plus the fact that this was a dirt-cheap economy car, it was a calculated risk, with "cheap" being the deciding factor.
_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.