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ot1138
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2022
Posts: 245
Location: IL
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 Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
Ok, great work.
Will the trans shift into neutral?
If so, remove the pressure plate.
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Why, yessir, it does. And so I did (I'm somewhat motivated that there's a JBugs sale until tomorrow). There were no pressure plate alignment marks but there were some circles in the flywheel and I noted their position relative to the pressure plate. I also made a few additional alignment marks with a sharpie (will be careful not to wash them away while cleaning later on).
I loosened each bolt 1/4 turn in a counter-clockwise fashion to avoid warping the plate until they are all loose. I see splotches on rust on the side while removing:
Back side of the pressure plate:
Clutch plate looks ok to me?
Flywheel shown next. I'm not sure what those black streaks are but there is absolutely no oil present, so that's good.
I'm not seeing anything obviously wrong here that could explain why the clutch isn't working.
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
Look for pressure plate alignment marks. Mine has three little dots in the plate and the flywheel.
Look at the pressure plate and see if it's corroded against the clutch disc or the clutch disc to the flywheel.
Also look at the pilot bearing inside the gland nut, see if it's frozen/corroded.
While the engine is out of the car. Clean up the fire extinguisher powder from the engine compartment and the engine too. Pull the fan shroud and cylinder tins, clean up yellow powder. It's corrosive. |
That yellow powder is EVERYWHERE. More cleanup in progress. I have to say though, perhaps mine is different than yours because I've seen no sign of corrosion, even though it's been sitting on some of these parts a couple of weeks now (I'm cleaning it up thoroughly anyway, better safe than sorry).
| Quote: |
Even though I'm old.  I dig the skulls on the firewall! |
Me too! |
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ot1138
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2022
Posts: 245
Location: IL
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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Replacement parts just arrived. So now I'm scratching my head about what might have caused the clutch to not disengage.
Based on other forum posts, it looks like I need to clean up the mating surfaces with brake cleaner. As the metal isn't shiny and has various cuts and scratches on its surface, I'm wondering if I should consider lightly polishing it with 2000 220 grit sandpaper. Bad idea?
Another possible cause is the rust seen in the collar mounted on the pressure plate diaphragm, where the throw out bearing presses against it. I imagine there's some resistance there. Can I soak this part of the pressure plate in a rust removing solution, followed by application of a bit of grease?
I see other posts mentioning to lubricate the diaphragm arms but I'm not quite sure what this would accomplish.
I have a brand new throw out bearing and plan on replacing that as well. |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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Honestly, if it isn't anything obvious, the Empi pressure plate would be my first suspect part. They make more bad things than good, and even the 'good' parts are of dubious quality. I would not be surprised at all if one failed completely for no reason.
That said while it is apart, how much does the throw out bearing move when you cycle the clutch pedal? (I have the spec somewhere will look in the morning)
How deep is the step in the pressure plate where the clutch disc sits?
does the disc slip easily on the transmission input splines?
Any one of these things can lead to weird clutch symptoms, or a clutch that doesn't work
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Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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ot1138
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2022
Posts: 245
Location: IL
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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I'll have to get the answers to those questions tonight.
I have been thinking about just getting a new pressure plate to be on the safe side. Any recommendations for high performance engine? Clutch plate is 200mm. |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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| ot1138 wrote: |
I'll have to get the answers to those questions tonight.
I have been thinking about just getting a new pressure plate to be on the safe side. Any recommendations for high performance engine? Clutch plate is 200mm. |
This is probably the best quality for the price
https://www2.cip1.com/clutch-heavy-duty-perf/
_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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ot1138
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2022
Posts: 245
Location: IL
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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Appears to be 18mm difference on the throwout bearing surface between clutch fully out and fully depressed.
I inspected the pressure plate under a bright light and it looks like someone went over it at one point with an angle grinder... I see circular patterns in it that are not very close together.
Think it's worth the $120 for a new pressure plate? |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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| ot1138 wrote: |
Appears to be 18mm difference on the throwout bearing surface between clutch fully out and fully depressed.
I inspected the pressure plate under a bright light and it looks like someone went over it at one point with an angle grinder... I see circular patterns in it that are not very close together.
Think it's worth the $120 for a new pressure plate? |
I had the exact same issues with a new Sachs pressure plate: the clutch would not fully release when the pedal was pressed. Flywheel in spec, new everything else, and I swapped in my best old pressure plate. Problem solved, and still using the old pressure plate.
Empi's reputation would certainly support the dead pressure plate theory
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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ot1138
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2022
Posts: 245
Location: IL
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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| That's what I'm thinking as well. I ordered the pressure plate recommended above. |
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ot1138
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2022
Posts: 245
Location: IL
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| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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Old and new throwout bearings shown below. The new one has a wider contact area and a lip on it. Is this interchangeable?
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ot1138
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2022
Posts: 245
Location: IL
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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New clutch and pressure plate installed. Torqued to 18 ft-lbs.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in reverse gear |
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Check the gland nut that holds the flywheel onto the crankshaft. Might be the needle bearings that the transaxle input shaft rides in are ruined.
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