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Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades?
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SinaiMike
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:24 pm    Post subject: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

Hi there.

I have an opportunity to buy a '68 Squareback that's been garaged for possibly decades. Apparently, something was wrong with it, the owner tried to fix it, couldn't figure it out, and then bought another VW.

I read that the '68 type 3's are fuel injected and that they're the first cars with a computer (something like an ancestor to the modern OBD II).

With the limited info provided here, do you think it would be relatively economical to have a mechanic get her back on the road?

Do you think $4,000 is a fair deal? It's in good condition (body, headliner, upholstery) minus a minor crinkle in the metal.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

We need lots more info to answer you!
- Is there an ad with photos we can check out?
- Where do you live?
- How mechanical are you?
- Will this be a daily driver?
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SinaiMike
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
We need lots more info to answer you!
- Is there an ad with photos we can check out?
- Where do you live?
- How mechanical are you?
- Will this be a daily driver?


Hello Phil,

Sorry for not having more info. There is no ad as it's not listed.
I live in Orange County, California. I'm reasonably mechanical but I don't have a garage. This will not be a daily driver.

The owner passed away but I think he kept meticulous notes. I'm trying to get ahold of those notes. If I do, I'll post any info here.
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SinaiMike
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

Here's a photo of the engine:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

OK that does look unmolested but what does the rest of he a look like.
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

I agree. You should look at the stickies at the top of the forum page to look for rust. Also Tram did a nice write up on resurrecting a car that's been parked for a while. There's a lot of good tips in it, so it's worth a look.
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

absolutely not
.
.
.
now ... what's that phone number for the car .....

gezzz, I think you could probably flip it at that price, if it's not all rusted out and smashed up, body and glass in good shape the rest is probably going to get rebuilt or replaced anyway eventually
you will need some place to work on it, all the rubber everything has to go before it hits the pavement for sure
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Ossipon
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

Ignore Pat Jr. If the rest looks as good as the one photo. It is worth every bit of $4000. And what is the owner's phone number?
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2023 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

SinaiMike wrote:
fuel injected.......do you think it would be relatively economical to have a mechanic get her back on the road?



This would by my concern. If you're not willing to learn about the FI system yourself, how to diagnose it, how to fix the unavailable parts then I think you will be in for trouble.

If you're going this route I would suggest you find a mechanic with experience in such a system and who is willing to work on it first. These days I would say it is easier to find a good condition running FI Type 3 than it is a mechanic who can competently work on it.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

old_man wrote:
SinaiMike wrote:
fuel injected.......do you think it would be relatively economical to have a mechanic get her back on the road?



This would by my concern. If you're not willing to learn about the FI system yourself, how to diagnose it, how to fix the unavailable parts then I think you will be in for trouble.

If you're going this route I would suggest you find a mechanic with experience in such a system and who is willing to work on it first. These days I would say it is easier to find a good condition running FI Type 3 than it is a mechanic who can competently work on it.


Exactly. Most of the old FI techs that used to work on this FI system have died off, or just stopped working on them due to finding parts (unless you're talking about Tram). Most of today's mechanics will suggest you swap to carbs, versus keeping the FI.
In reality, you really should learn how to work on your own car, as nobody cares as much about it as you do. Unfortunately most of today's mechanics are "parts changers" and don't know how to diagnose a system that you can't plug a reader into. This system requires a VOM, and a chart to go thru each and every step to verify it's still good. The ohm readings are out there for testing, and parts are available, but you have to match the parts to the system in your car...68 & early 69 are the A version, mid-late 69 is the B version, 70 & 71 are the c version, while 72and 73 are the E version. Note some late 71's got the D version, but not many. What you're trying to match is the ECU, the MPS, and the TVS. Most of the rest of the parts interchange, like injects, AAR's, and those types of parts.
I hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
old_man wrote:
SinaiMike wrote:
fuel injected.......do you think it would be relatively economical to have a mechanic get her back on the road?



This would by my concern. If you're not willing to learn about the FI system yourself, how to diagnose it, how to fix the unavailable parts then I think you will be in for trouble.

If you're going this route I would suggest you find a mechanic with experience in such a system and who is willing to work on it first. These days I would say it is easier to find a good condition running FI Type 3 than it is a mechanic who can competently work on it.


Exactly. Most of the old FI techs that used to work on this FI system have died off, or just stopped working on them due to finding parts (unless you're talking about Tram). Most of today's mechanics will suggest you swap to carbs, versus keeping the FI.
In reality, you really should learn how to work on your own car, as nobody cares as much about it as you do. Unfortunately most of today's mechanics are "parts changers" and don't know how to diagnose a system that you can't plug a reader into. This system requires a VOM, and a chart to go thru each and every step to verify it's still good. The ohm readings are out there for testing, and parts are available, but you have to match the parts to the system in your car...68 & early 69 are the A version, mid-late 69 is the B version, 70 & 71 are the c version, while 72and 73 are the E version. Note some late 71's got the D version, but not many. What you're trying to match is the ECU, the MPS, and the TVS. Most of the rest of the parts interchange, like injects, AAR's, and those types of parts.
I hope this helps.

Thank you Bob. I have never seen such a concise descriptor for the variations of FI and Type 3. And it makes sense too.
I was introduced to K-Jetronic and thought it wonderful. The diagnostics were similar to what you describe for the early versions. But, to your point. Can you migrate from an A to a D or even an E if you have the correct and matching ECU. TVS and MPS?
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GjMan
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

I assume you can swap an early FI system for a later one. If you can find the parts. And determine if those parts are good.
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

Ossipon wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:
old_man wrote:
SinaiMike wrote:
fuel injected.......do you think it would be relatively economical to have a mechanic get her back on the road?



This would by my concern. If you're not willing to learn about the FI system yourself, how to diagnose it, how to fix the unavailable parts then I think you will be in for trouble.

If you're going this route I would suggest you find a mechanic with experience in such a system and who is willing to work on it first. These days I would say it is easier to find a good condition running FI Type 3 than it is a mechanic who can competently work on it.


Exactly. Most of the old FI techs that used to work on this FI system have died off, or just stopped working on them due to finding parts (unless you're talking about Tram). Most of today's mechanics will suggest you swap to carbs, versus keeping the FI.
In reality, you really should learn how to work on your own car, as nobody cares as much about it as you do. Unfortunately most of today's mechanics are "parts changers" and don't know how to diagnose a system that you can't plug a reader into. This system requires a VOM, and a chart to go thru each and every step to verify it's still good. The ohm readings are out there for testing, and parts are available, but you have to match the parts to the system in your car...68 & early 69 are the A version, mid-late 69 is the B version, 70 & 71 are the c version, while 72and 73 are the E version. Note some late 71's got the D version, but not many. What you're trying to match is the ECU, the MPS, and the TVS. Most of the rest of the parts interchange, like injects, AAR's, and those types of parts.
I hope this helps.

Thank you Bob. I have never seen such a concise descriptor for the variations of FI and Type 3. And it makes sense too.
I was introduced to K-Jetronic and thought it wonderful. The diagnostics were similar to what you describe for the early versions. But, to your point. Can you migrate from an A to a D or even an E if you have the correct and matching ECU. TVS and MPS?


If you're asking if you can swap an A system to a C system, yes and no. While it could swap, you'll need a C harness to go with it, as the A&B systems use a different style/type of MPS set up (2 wire versus 4 wire). I think Joe made a conversion harness when he went from a C system to the A-B system on his own car. Going from a C system to an E system is also a little more involved, and some of that is the harness as well (yearly VW upgrades), like going from a 4 wire to 5 wire TVS, and EGR valve on some models. That's why I say you need to do some studying on what you have in order to know what you need to change to get where you want to go.

Another way to look at it would be if you were starting with an FI car that someone converted to carbs because they couldn't find an FI mechanic, you could build whatever system you wanted. Keep in mind that while the C system offers some nice advantages, it's weak point is the diaphragm inside the MPS. Yes, the Porsche crowd got someone to make new ones for their cars, which also work on our cars, but you pay Porsche prices for it. There are some good used ones out there too. Joe used to make FI harnesses for our cars, and I think he still does. Brad or Paul also makes them for our cars, but he mainly does Porsche harnesses, and sometimes requests an old harness to copy from. I know I had to send him an old one, that basically showed him the layout of the harness itself (where the branches were). If you talk to Ray about harnesses, his first suggestion is to change out the D-Jet connectors for L-Jet, as they work better, and eliminates the D-Jet's weak point. But there is some work involved in getting them to work.
I did something like that on my wife's 70 Fastback. I removed the PO installed carbs, and used a type 4 wagon FI wiring harness. I shortened it up, and made things fit the type 3 engine, as it was set up for a type 4 engine.Then I ohm metered out the wires of the harness (there's only 22 of them). I used an FI distributor, and triggered the injectors by rotating the rotor and watching them fire (spray). That verified that I had 4 good injectors, and the wiring harness was good. Once it was installed on the car, and everything else hooked up, it fired right off like it was supposed to. I've since lowered the idle speed down since then, as I had bumped it up so it wouldn't stall (went just a little too far). I built that set up with used parts that I got from several people in the Samba classifieds.
When I did my 71 Notch, I had a new harness made for me (custom as I wanted a couple of wires made longer). I built a complete system for it using used parts as well. Everything worked fine for a month or so, then I started having a problem. Turned out I had a bad voltage regulator, as D-Jet is sensitive to voltage drops, and mine was dropping more as I drove it. I hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

SinaiMike wrote:
Hi there.

I have an opportunity to buy a '68 Squareback that's been garaged for possibly decades. Apparently, something was wrong with it, the owner tried to fix it, couldn't figure it out, and then bought another VW.

I read that the '68 type 3's are fuel injected and that they're the first cars with a computer (something like an ancestor to the modern OBD II).

With the limited info provided here, do you think it would be relatively economical to have a mechanic get her back on the road?

Do you think $4,000 is a fair deal? It's in good condition (body, headliner, upholstery) minus a minor crinkle in the metal.


In reality this is one of those deals that could go either way. You could buy it and throw in a couple of grand and make it a solid daily driver. Or, you could buy it, and wash all the dirt off and sell it on to recoup your money.
I wouldn't go thru the trouble of trying to fix it first and then sell it hoping for a profit. These cars aren't split window buses, and they're not super special or anything. Prices have yet to come up as well, or as Notchboy says, "they're soft".
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

Need more pictures to see what everything look like. Focus on the areas with surface rust. Get good pictures of those areas.
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

Hi everyone. Thanks for the great info. Here's another picture of the vehicle. It's actually a picture of a picture Smile


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

Look good!
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

SinaiMike wrote:
Hi everyone. Thanks for the great info. Here's another picture of the vehicle. It's actually a picture of a picture Smile


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's worth his asking price. I'd probably go thru the mechanicals and drive the hell out of it.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
SinaiMike wrote:
Hi everyone. Thanks for the great info. Here's another picture of the vehicle. It's actually a picture of a picture Smile


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's worth his asking price. I'd probably go thru the mechanicals and drive the hell out of it.


You are going to want to check out that front fender and the gap between it and the door. Might be tough to get that door open at the moment. Hard to tell from here, but it is quite buckled.
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I buy a 1968 Squareback that's been garaged for decades? Reply with quote

That's quite an interestesting hit it took on the front left fender.
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