Seeking Feedback for Upgrading Brakes

[2067Bug]

I’m thinking about upgrading my 57 Oval front brakes from 30mm to 40 mm (58-64) brakes. I have a nice set of correct backing plates and priced everything else out as new from WW. The plan is to go with new German drums, wheel cylinders, bearings, etc. For those of you that made the conversion, did you find that braking noticeable improved – was it worth it? Any regrets?

Thanks

[Jacks]

Yes, noticeably improved braking. Also added the ‘58/‘65 front sway bar
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Jack Staggs
Actual name

[AlteWagen]

Not sure if you are upgrading the rear as well but in the past the only repro rear drums were the 65-67 wider drums which fit and work but leave a lot of unused friction area when using 58-64 shoes. Id upgrade to the 65-67 backing plates, wheel cylinders and shoes to maximize what is available. Type III and Thing rear brakes are even bigger, still offer the wide 5 pattern and also help a ton of stopping power if you need it.

I agree on the sway bar, Id use a empi HD bar and paint it black to look stock. If you have more than 80hp and drive freeway a lot a HD rear sway bar is also a must. Even if driving slow on the freeway sway bars help from being tossed around by fast moving trucks passing you.
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[Jacks]

The brake bias works well with the 58/64 front system and the original 57 rears, which, if I am not mistaken, are the same diameter and width as the 58/64 rears. Of course, if power and speed modifications are in place, further brake mods may be required.
Regarding sway bars, back in the days when almost no speed equipment was available, we would weld two sway bars together at the ends, one on top of the other, and hog out the rubber mounting blocks to accept them. Worked quite well
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Jack Staggs
Actual name

[sunroof]

I have done this as well and it is a good upgrade also Jacks idea of an antisway bar has a large impact on handling.

Don
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Better and better mistakes!

[pig-pen]

I did front and back. Works great. Looks OG ish.
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1954 L227 Type 113
1964 L31 Type 265

[2067Bug]

I’m upgrading only the front brakes and will move the 19mm front wheel cylinders to the rear. Does anyone have a picture of the correct stock front antisway bar that fits a stock 57 beam? Highway speed is not a factor since I’m still cruising with the original 36hp engine. Thanks everyone for the feedback.

[AlteWagen]

No factory sway bars for pre 60 beetles but the double dip ghia sway bar would be the era correct add on

Here is a thread from a year ago with some info

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=774258
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Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet

[EVfun]

[2067Bug]

Very useful information. Thanks everyone for taking time to respond.

[tcoop1100]

I purchased a stock anti-sway bar and mounting kit from a later Bug for my '57 Sedan and it fit perfectly. I think the bars for link pin and ball joint cars are shaped differently, though, so you want to make sure you get one for a link pin car.

I like the idea of using the later front brakes- I may look into that for mine.
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Aloha,
Tim
January '57 Sedan, April '64 40hp big bore

[petrol punk]

I always had issues with rear axle leaks after installing 58-64 brakes. They have a different thickness backing plate. I replaced my 56 axle tubes with 58-60 axle tubes and haven't had a leak since.
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36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval, '70 bug 1835cc dual 36DRLA, and a '98 4x4 5spd single cab Tacoma

[2067Bug]

Just received all the parts to make the conversion from 57 front brakes to 58-64 brakes. However, I forgot to order the wheel cylinder bolt (now one bolt and formerly two). Can some tell me the correct size of the bolt and what type of washer goes with it. In the Gallery there are pictures, but the size is unclear. Thanks.

[esde]

It's a short M8-1.25, maybe 20-25mm long. I would guess it's a flat washer, but possibly a "wave" type lock washer.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[2067Bug]

The conversion to 58-64 brakes went well. I had to bleed the new wheel cylinders for quit some time but they came around. It’s a nice improvement and definitely noticeable when stopping the car.

The brakes work great and the only thing I noticed was that the brake pedal goes down about an inch further than is used to before engaging the brakes. I did not change the MC or make any adjustment to the pushrod or the brake pedal stop plate.

Question: Does the upgrade to 58-64 brakes change the toe specification. I’m scheduled for an alignment and was going to bring the specification cited in my 52-57 workshop manual. Thanks

[esde]

Toe is unchanged.
Congrats on getting it done! Did you get new drums or use old ones?
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[2067Bug]

I bought the German drums, wheel cylinders, bearings, etc., from WW. Expensive, but not as expensive as not being able to stop when needed. Thanks for the feedback.

[Albertoprop17]

If you want to improve even more the front brake performance, use superbeetle brake cylinders, as they are bigger than the non super ones.

Also, as mentioned before, you can install 68 and later brakes with csp conversion drums (I'm running those on my 54), which have the 40mm shoes, but maybe need to be machined down to fully thighten on a short axle car.

In addition, a 19mm dual circuit master cylinder is a good upgrade for both performance and safety.
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[sunroof]