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Jacking up Thing on all 4's
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amishman
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:23 pm    Post subject: Jacking up Thing on all 4's Reply with quote

I have my front end up on jack stands right now doing front brake work. Since it appears I will be ordering parts for the front repairs, I mine as well just make it one big order, so I want to see what I need on the backside. Question is, is it OK to now jackup the backside while the front is in the air and then put the two jacks on the backside so it is now all on 4 jack stands? Or, is that a NO NO? I happen to own a Torque Dude so should not have to really torque on the back nuts to get them off.

I can just do the front and place one order, the back later, and order again, paying more for freight, but if safe to do on all 4 jack stands, that would be great.

Looking for your advise.

I figured I would jack up the back on that tranny plate between the motor and tranny, then get two more jacks under it, and set her down. But just wanted to make sure that does not put too much pressure on the front jacks while I do this. My front jacks are 3 ton craftsman stands.

Thanks,

tj
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Towel Rail
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't. I had the back two on jack stands last night, and seeing how much the front rolled during that, I think it might yank it forward off the back two stands.

But I'll defer to people who have more experience with this sort of thing. Cool
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amishman
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Towel Rail wrote:
I wouldn't. I had the back two on jack stands last night, and seeing how much the front rolled during that, I think it might yank it forward off the back two stands.

But I'll defer to people who have more experience with this sort of thing. Cool


I am skeptical myself so that is why I ask. Maybe it is a bad idea and I will just do one side at a time even if it costs me more time and money for extra shipping.

Mad

tj
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ztnoo
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Jacking up Thing on all 4's Reply with quote

amishman,
I've had all there Things here on floor stands and encountered no problems.
Jack the front and back in small increments to get the the height you need to work on your project.
Sure it requires extra work if you only have one floor jack, but its the safest way to do it I've found.
If you go jacking one end up to max or near max, I agree you are potentially asking for big trouble.
Just jack each end until you are confident the angles aren't too severe to jeopardize the stability of the vehicle.
I've got two Things on floor stands right now, with no problems.
Just take a good, long, hard look at everything you are doing, and don't get in a hurry.
Awareness and close observation of the whole aspect of raising all fours should prevent a vehicle falling on the ground or floor....or worse yet, you.

I raise on the tranny plate you refer to with the floor jack, and place the rear floor stands under the torsion tubes in front of each rear wheel.
Also, wheel chock the end opposite the end you are raising.
I don't think you will have any problems.
But be aware and always think of safety (yours) first.

ztnoo
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Yarkle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can anyone show me a picture of where exactly to jack with a floor jack and where to put the jackstands?
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Chad1376
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No good pictures handy right now:

For the front, I place the jack in the center of the beam. Jackstands on the far outside of the beam, near the shock tower supports.

For the rear, I place the jack in the center of the transmission support. Jackstands on the rear torsion bar casting, just behind the bushing cap. There's a nice notch there that helps keep the jackstand from slipping.

Always make sure you have surveylance and and an armed guard to protect your vehicle from marauders while it's disabled. Smile

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Yarkle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dude , you rock!

I think I can figure out what you are talkign about, but if anyone else could post a more detailed picture, thatd be great. I havent worked on VWs (or cars for that matteR) in a long time, so im not sure what a torsion bar is. If you pointed it out, Ids know but....

I miss it when my son was that age, he still does alot of cool stuff, but not the way he did when he was that young!
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of notes here.

I wouldn't do it with the factory jack. (Amishman, I know you said you're using a floor jack. This is just general info.) It's better to lift the car front and rear, and the factory jack forces you to lift one side and then the other, which is not preferable.

If you are going to use a bottle jack, it's better to go up in increments a bit on the front, then put in the stands, then a bit on the rear, and stands, and then back to the front, raise and reset the stands, and so forth. I make this recommendation because the bottle jack doesn't roll, and will push the opposite end of the car away as you raise the vehicle.

With a floor jack, it's no problem as long as the ground is firm, level and smooth enough for the floor jack to roll.

As far as points under which to set the jack stands - in front, the beam is always a good bet. In the photo above, the factory jack points are being used in the rear. If your pans are iffy, you are at risk of deforming the pan, and in extreme circumstances, the sill. I put stands under the torsion bar tubes.

Make sure your jack stands are worthy of the task. After the car is set on the stands, give it a shake to make sure it's stable, and then walk around the car to make sure the feet of all the stands are touching the ground. If not, lift the offending corner and adjust. It can't hurt to store the wheels under the car as an added precaution while you're doing the work.

Cheers.
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Chad1376
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a little better photo of the rear. Actually, I've never used the factory jack points, They're so rusty, there's nothing holding them on to my car except some paint and errant bondo splatter. Wink

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Last edited by Chad1376 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yarkle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im using a 5 ton floor jack, and i have 4 5 ton jack stands...what is the torsion bar?
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Yarkle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaaaahhh...I see it alot better now.
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Yarkle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my neighbor (owns a body shop) said its better to keep it up on jack stands for now as im workign on it, and maybe through the winter...he says this is for cars in general...but hes never worked on a thing...

Any reason why i shouldnt do this?

Getting it on the road will be my winter project, So i was goiing to pulls the wheels, drums, etc, and then replace the passenger pan or the battery tray.

fix the Cvs, then POR/rustmort/masterseries whatever the pans out and in, and the suspension.

So, with all of that work to do, does it make sense to keep it up in the air, or just jack it up and down each time?


Last edited by Yarkle on Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rsorak
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put it up on stands and you wont regret it....All that space to work under it is very nice...
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chad1376 wrote:
Actually, I've never used the factory jack points . . .

I stand corrected Chad. A trick of the eye . . . Smile
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yellow73kubel
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The jack points I used are pretty much the same as Chad said. I've rasied the rear using the tranny before, but usually put the jack under the torsion bar (the frame comes down in a very wide "V", there is a drain hole where I put the jack). Stands in the same place, except I usually use the end of the torsion bar (doesn't make much difference).

Also, it is best to jack up the rear first for extra clearance so you don't mess up an aftermarket or Bug-style exhaust. Again, persional preference..

You should be totally fine leaving it up on stands. If you plan to crawl under there, I would recommend putting the wheels under the car at each corner, and adding at least two more jack stands or supports to the end you are working on. Just for added safety, since there is always the chance of one stand failing or slipping.. Leaving the jack in place doesn't hurt, but *never* crawl under a car not supported by stands.
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yellow73kubel wrote:
Also, it is best to jack up the rear first for extra clearance so you don't mess up an aftermarket or Bug-style exhaust. Again, persional preference..

If you're going to jack the rear up first, the front wheels must be chocked. If you jack up the front first the parking brake will hold the rear.
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THINGONER
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may sound obvious but with the front already on the jack stands you must place the floor jack (while jacking up the rear end) parallel with the cars wheels-so that as the arm of the jack moves upward and away from front end it doesn't raise the car unequally (left or right). Also make sure your wheels on the floor jack are able to roll freely so that the jack does not pull the car off the jack stands (maybe this was mentioned already).
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amishman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't need the old jack-stand method anymore. This summer I splurged on a neat new lift from Dannmar. Called the Maxjax. 2 post lift but smaller than the normal style for those home DIY folks with less ceiling height. Lifts to 45" or 48" with 3" pads. Just right to roll under it sitting on a normal stool.

Works nicely.

Cool

tj

Man, this thread I started like 2005. Laughing

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7thing3
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found this to be the most effective technique:

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Fun 181
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7thing3 wrote:
I've found this to be the most effective technique:

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Yeah, this guy is about one second away from winning a well-deserved Darwin award.
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