Bad news about the VW/Porsche 914...True/false?

[Windisch]

Today, my search continued to find a local (Sacramento CA) shop that will willingly service and work on the VW/Porsche flat-4 engine that powers the VW/Porsche 914. During that search, I talked with a shop owner (in a nearby area adjacent to Sacramento) who is very popular with VW Bug owners for his excellent work and asked him what his stance was on the 914-4 1.7, 1.8 and 2.0 liter engines. I was absolutely shocked to hear what he had to say!

He basically said that the VW Typ-4 engine (that powered the VW/Porsche version of the 914 and the Typ 411/412 cars (as well as some later Typ-2s) was (in so many words) "...a terrible engine to maintain and work on"...one reason why (so he suggested) so many shops may refuse to work on the 914-4 cars."]

He further went on to say not just this, but that parts for the engines are increasingly difficult to source and locate (among several other things). In other words, the flat-4 Typ-4 engine that is the core of the VW produced 914 cars is a terrible design that today is extremely unpopular among the shops!

This news (if completely factual) came to me like a bolt out of the blue, totally unexpected, but if true, it would certainly help explain to some substantial extent exactly why exactly the search for a good shop that will willingly work on 914-4 cars is so fraught with difficulty in this part of Northern California!

Having just acquired my most recent 914-4 (1.8 liter), this fills me with dismay, since I am now stuck with a lovely specimen of the 914-4 that hardly any quality mechanic wants to see in their Porsche or Volks garage! Prior to this, I'd never heard of any such undercurrent of commercial shop dislike for the 914-4 production's essential being! And I certainly hadn't anticipated this sort of a situation in the capital of the largest state on the Pacific Coast! [And of course, as most of us know, the Typ-4 engine stayed in production and was used on Typ-2 vehicles long after the 914 and 412 production ended in late 1975); a puzzlement, if the 412 engine was such a wretched and disfavored dog...so go figure!]

I'd certainly welcome any inputs of comments on this from the members of the 914 community on SAMBA (particularly 'Dr914' of Auto Atlanta if he's on frequency). Still holding my head in shocked disbelief!


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1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]

[Glenn]

Basically the same engine in the late Bay Bus and early Vanagon.

Parts are more expensive, but the engine is not any harder to work on.

The biggest issues is when the fuel injection is causing problems, but that's just because the shop doesn't know what they are doing.

But then, not many shop know much about aircooled engines these days.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[Erik G]

Not only are parts expensive, parts in general are not of the same quality anymore. This requires more time to make parts work, and if you're a shop owner do you want to warranty this stuff? This is why most classic car owners do their own stuff, or fork out lots of Money.

[Windisch]

I thought I'd ask MS/Bing's AI 'Co-Pilot' the question ("Why is it so hard to find a garage that will work on 914s?"). The response was interesting. Here it is:

WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO FIND A GARAGE THAT WILL WORK ON VW/PORSCHE 914 CARS (2024)?

The VW/Porsche 914-4 is an intriguing blend of two iconic automotive brands: Volkswagen and Porsche. Let’s delve into the reasons behind its mixed reputation and why some mechanics might hesitate to work on these cars.

1. Hybrid Origins:
o The 914-4 was a joint project between Porsche and Volkswagen. Porsche needed an affordable sports car, and VW wanted a range-topping two-seater. The result was the 914-4, which utilized many VW parts to reduce development and production costs.
o However, this hybrid nature meant that the 914-4 didn’t fit neatly into either camp. It was part Porsche and part VW, leading to some identity confusion. [The 914-6, in contrast, was ALL Porsche.]


2. Styling and Perception:
o The 914-4’s design was unconventional. It didn’t resemble any other VW or Porsche on the road. Some described it as “functional, low, and sporty,” while others called it “a pleasant eyesore.”
o Unlike the classic Porsche look, the 914-4 had integrated bumpers, pop-up headlights, and a lower center of gravity. Its appearance divided opinions.

3. Service Challenges:
o The 914-4’s unique design and shared components posed challenges for service garages and mechanics:
 Parts Availability: Finding specific 914-4 parts can be tricky due to its hybrid nature. Some components are VW-based, while others are Porsche-specific.
 Specialized Knowledge: Mechanics need a good understanding of both VW and Porsche systems to work on the 914-4 effectively. Not all mechanics have this expertise.
 Tooling and Equipment: The 914-4’s mid-engine layout requires specialized tools and equipment for maintenance and repairs.
 Lack of Familiarity: Many mechanics are more accustomed to working on traditional rear-engine Porsches or front-engine VWs. The 914-4 falls in between, making it less familiar territory.

4. Changing Perception:
o Over time, perceptions have shifted. What was once considered an “ugly duckling” is now recognized as an important piece of automotive history.
o Prices for 914s have risen significantly, reflecting their growing popularity among collectors and enthusiasts.
In summary, the 914-4’s dual heritage, unique design, and specialized requirements contribute to its mixed reputation among mechanics. However, for those who appreciate its quirks and character, the 914-4 remains a fun and intriguing classic car123.

And there it is, straight from AI's collective consciousness.
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1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]

[kpf]

It's just economics. Type 4 owners are few and far between, and they don't want to pay "Porsche prices" for parts or service. Thus mechanics cannot afford to specialize in supporting them.
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1971 Super Beetle

[Glenn]

[kpf]

I don't know. I bet there are more buses running around than 914s. Maybe enough to keep some mechanics in business without Porsche prices?
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1971 Super Beetle

[Glenn]

The shop I work out of, part time, has a single hourly rate for Beetles, Busses, Porsche, Mercedes and they'll even work on my Subaru.

They know them all.

There's plenty of shop that work on makes and models they've never worked on before.

A 914 is no different from a VW Bus and not much different from a Beetle.

Try taking a Beetle to a corner repair shop that doesn't know how to set points, set ignition timing or do valve lash. Most just plug a scanner in and do what the online software tells them to do.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[Windisch]

I'd bet that there are more shops in SoCal that willingly work on Type IV motors than in NorCal (at least in the Sacramento area, which is smack in the middle of the Californica (sic) Great Valley).

Speaking of Type IV vehicles, I had not just one but two VW 412s (a silver one and a blue one), a few years back (before they became scarce collectibles) and I was totally unimpressed by the cars' 'driveability', road-handling and just about everything except the engine. Several shops I took them to for routine maintenance simply scratched their heads and told me to 'ditch them and buy Bugs', LoL. Another shop told me that the very late-model air-sucker Type IIs (which used the same engine as the 914-4, of course) were not real popular with some of the VW shops..one shop up here even flat-out told me they wouldn't work on them). Go figure. [But remember, that they told Orville and Wilber that their contraption would never even get off the ground, either...]

PS: Reflecting on Glenn's comment about the computer/scanner diagnosis technology, I suspect that a lot of mechs these days are getting spoiled by them and the OBDII system. VW had, of course, one of the early computer plug-in links on Bugs but it was a comparatively primitive 'Village Idiot' in comparison to current auto diagnostic systems. More sophistication in contemporary cars translates to exponentially increased purchased costs, too. One of the reasons I dislike the latest 'Porsche four-wheeled F-35 fighter jets' and stick to my frusty old 70s hardware, LoL!

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1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
----------------------
Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]

[nextgen]

Glenn you hit it on the head, this like I jug went back to the Future 1993,

they have no clue about the T-4 engines when they are very much like a T-1



They want fast money.

One of the best things about 914, is the engine and tranny just drops out together.
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[raygreenwood]

[[email protected]]

we have anything you would ever need in stock for your 914!!!!!!!!!!

[raygreenwood]

[Vanagonsgoslow]

Have you tried going to IPB Autosport in Sacramento to have your 914 worked on? The owner, Ron Kain, raced a Porsche 914 for years, and is a well respected Porsche shop owner and technician.

[Pepperbilly]

Don't listen to this guy. He obviously does not have the patience and expertise. In other words, he's not going to make any money.

I grew up with 914s and 412s. The type 4 engine was way more robust. Has its own dedicated oil full flow filter. They were very reliable in all 914s. I know from experience. I worked on them and drove them.

Sure, a bit hard to work on especially in the 914 with the mid engine crammed into that tiny space. Once you worked on a few it became a piece of cake.

Even back in the day, there were not too many techs that understood the fuel injection. Many people ripped the injection out and tried carbs. Big mistake. If the engine was all correct and the injection also correct, these were sweet running cars. My '73 412 wagon is a testament to that. A very precise running machine with that stock 1.7 liter.

Go ahead and love that 914. Most of all find a mechanic with some experience that loves them too.

Bill

[johnnyvw164]

[quote="raygreenwood"]

[raygreenwood]

[quote="johnnyvw164"]

[wonkipop]

johnnyvw164 is correct.

the 411/412 two door fastback was not grey market in the USA.

the way it went was
411/412 Variant and 4 door were exclusively auto gearbox in the USA.
the fastback 2 door was exclusively a manual box in the USA.
(it was different in the rest of the world, you got your manual boxes in all the variations generally speaking).

the variant and 4 door vastly outsold the 2 door as the USA market preferred the autobox cars in the big VW. thats not to say they were the better variations.
people of discerning taste would have been going for the 2 door.
a bit of a sleeper. don't doubt for a minute it would have given a bog standar 914 owner a fright away from the light. no strange moment trying to find 2nd gear.

in 1974 the last year of manufacture and sales the 2 door fastback was excluded from sale in california but was available in 49 states as it only met USEPA emissions standards and not californian standards. it retained the 1.7 D jetronic injection system with the 4 speed box. only the variants and the 4 doors were equiped with the 1.8 L jetronic mated to the auto box. the 1.8s were sold USA wide. not entirely sure on emission set up differences for 1.8s but in california at minimum they had EGR. not sure if EGR on 49 states L jets.

the last of the european 412s were fairly interesting. in 1974 they had the twin carb high compression 1.8 AN engine same as the euro 74/75 1.8 914. 85hp stock.
the most powerful VW aircooled sedans ever marketed (if you don't count the 914 as a VW ) good enough to nearly give a USA spec 2.0 L 914 a run for its money.

we found all this out and verified it looking deeply into the 74 L jet 914s.

the 74 412 also has the status of being the first ever car fitted with L jet.
beat the 914 by three months into production.
an historical milestone largely forgotten today.

L jet is a fantastic system.
the germans rethinking D jet which was essentially a rework of Bendix Eletrojet.
L jet was critical thinking and natively german. very smart.
much simpler.
D jet died on the vine as soon as L jet came along.
L jet quickly evolved.
as was usual at that time VW was at the forefront.
a great period.
the germans were also advancing electronic music at exactly the same time.
amazing place - very different mindset to the rest of europe.

when i get in my L jet 914 i turn the key and think of kraftwerk.

you need to find a mechanic into early german electronic music as a workshop ambient soundtrack.

beetles belong to an earlier era.
if marlene dietrich is playing on the radio walk out the door.

[wonkipop]

fahn fahn fahn on the autobahn.

as you can see from official owners manual in the glovebox.
the pretty little fastback with a 4 speed box.
official USA merchandise.
check your own archives on this website.
the glove box manual is listed as a pdf right here.
where i got the info.

[wagen19]