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67 brake reservoir questions
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08west
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

I used a '67 reservoir from WW when converting my '65 to dual circuit. This is how I solved the different pipe diameter problem. The WW reservoir came with copper tails. I already had the the larger OD copper pipe, so crimped it to size in a vice, using a screw as a former, then soldered it on.

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That was 4 1/2 years ago, and no leaks. Though TBH aquifer's adapter barbs might be a better solution.
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aquifer
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

I found a solution to the reservoir to master cylinder hose sizing issue for a 67.

Here is a picture of the parts laid out with the part numbers visible for anyone who sees this post in the future.

The 7mm hose fits tight on the master cylinder hose barbs, and the 5mm hose fits tight on the reservoir steel lines. The WW website doesn't specifically say that these are 5mm, but they are. Note that 1/4" is too big, they need to be 5mm. I found the brass stepped hose barbs on Amazon (3/16” to 5/16”).

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kingjason2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

aquifer wrote:
It's proving to be a challenge to find a brake reservoir hose that's truly a good fit for the reservoir's steel lines. Quarter inch hose is plenty loose, although it would probably snug up fine with a hose clamp since there is no pressure.

It really needs to be 3/16" hose though, but no such hose exists for brake fluid that I've been able to find.

So.....

Since I'm going to make the switch to DOT 5, can I just use a regular 3/16" rubber fuel hose? I have two hose barbs that are 1/4 on one end and 5/16 on the other. I think the 3/16 hose will go on the 1/4" side if I talk nice to it. Then I'll run the 5/16 hose to the m/c.

I'm banking on the fact that DOT 5 won't damage a regular fuel hose, and that I'll be the only owner forever, so I'll know not to put DOT 3 or 4 in it.

So before I commit to the plan, does that sound workable as far as fluid compatibility?


This made me so mad the other day. I told my wife, why in the heck would you advertise this thing as an upgrade, and you know one is 5mm and the other is 7mm, not tom mention the sliding blue cover. I had some professional clamps I put the juice too and they fixed it. If it makes you feel any better, I got all my brakes and lines replaced, disc on the front, and while I was fixing the clutch tube in the tunnel I bumped the center long hard line a couple of times. I was finishing up my last round of bleeding and thought, why is it wet on the floor. Ruptured that dude at the hold down clip. I was so exictied I was going to get to drive it......Meh, at least the clutch works now.
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737065&highlight=brake+hose
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aquifer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

It's proving to be a challenge to find a brake reservoir hose that's truly a good fit for the reservoir's steel lines. Quarter inch hose is plenty loose, although it would probably snug up fine with a hose clamp since there is no pressure.

It really needs to be 3/16" hose though, but no such hose exists for brake fluid that I've been able to find.

So.....

Since I'm going to make the switch to DOT 5, can I just use a regular 3/16" rubber fuel hose? I have two hose barbs that are 1/4 on one end and 5/16 on the other. I think the 3/16 hose will go on the 1/4" side if I talk nice to it. Then I'll run the 5/16 hose to the m/c.

I'm banking on the fact that DOT 5 won't damage a regular fuel hose, and that I'll be the only owner forever, so I'll know not to put DOT 3 or 4 in it.

So before I commit to the plan, does that sound workable as far as fluid compatibility?
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kingjason2
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

When I was swapping out the clutch slave on my 1125 and flushing the system I did think, why the heck is brake fluid so messy. Like you can never do anything with out spilling it or something. So, I can dig that. I just pretty much replaced my entire system so I am not worried about it anymore on the beetle. I will give the nose a shot of Ospho when I am done and won't worry about it. I was never building a show car so not real concerned with it.
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scrivyscriv
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

Brake fluid discussion is in the same realm as oil discussion - everyone is pretty much convinced their own preference is the best!
I don’t have a problem with DOT 3/4. It has worked faithfully for decades. DOT 4 is probably a better choice for disc brakes; I don’t know enough about 5.1 to put my $0.02 in other than saying it’s overkill with drums. But that’s okay.

The reason I am using DOT 5 silicone-based is for fluid spills or leakage when flushing and bleeding the system. I don’t want my chassis powdercoat or paint to wrinkle. I’ve seen the damage that happens; specifically in the napoleon’s hat on beetles, when DOT 3/4 fluid leaks around the master cylinder pushrod and into the chassis structural member. It eats the paint and allows (or causes, not sure) severe corrosion to set in completely undetected.

Otherwise 3/4 is completely fine.
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

kingjason2 wrote:
I thought surely I was mis reading DOT 5 but nope you guys were all in. Why not 5.1? It is better then 3 and 4 but compatible with both. I have switch my motorcycles over to it and thought about the beetle but just figured good ole 3 was fine.


https://armorlubricants.com/blog/brake-fluids-differences/
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

I thought surely I was mis reading DOT 5 but nope you guys were all in. Why not 5.1? It is better then 3 and 4 but compatible with both. I have switch my motorcycles over to it and thought about the beetle but just figured good ole 3 was fine.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

viiking wrote:

Absolutely true. But I want to get the message out there because the issue of so many people having issues with brake problems, perceived master cylinder quality etc is concerning given that how important brakes are to our cars.

I jump into those conversations whenever I can.

And when in future when people search for issues there are some from non-North American countries that may not know of the difference.


Absolutely, and appreciate you mentioning that.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
viiking wrote:
And to totally confuse everyone.

FOR SOME OF US WITH DUAL MASTER CYLINDER FACTORY DISC BRAKES e.g.Euro Beetles.

Bleed the rears first then the fronts.


Except for not talking disc brake overseas beetles. Very Happy


Absolutely true. But I want to get the message out there because the issue of so many people having issues with brake problems, perceived master cylinder quality etc is concerning given that how important brakes are to our cars.

I jump into those conversations whenever I can.

And when in future when people search for issues there are some from non-North American countries that may not know of the difference.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

[quote="scrivyscriv"]
Eric&Barb wrote:
Agreed on the DOT5, but it is still good to bleed once each wheel once a year to flush out any water that will settle into the lowest points of the brake system.


Have a read of this thread, taking particular note of Ray Greenwood's explanations.

There are SOME situations and climates where water can accumulate at the low parts of the system and cause corrosion.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10047758
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

viiking wrote:
And to totally confuse everyone.

FOR SOME OF US WITH DUAL MASTER CYLINDER FACTORY DISC BRAKES e.g.Euro Beetles.

Bleed the rears first then the fronts.


Except for not talking disc brake overseas beetles. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

And to totally confuse everyone.

FOR SOME OF US WITH DUAL MASTER CYLINDER FACTORY DISC BRAKES e.g.Euro Beetles.

Bleed the rears first then the fronts.
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aquifer
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

Well I’ll be. I stand corrected! I will follow your advice (and the manual).

I guess it does make sense, I have just assumed this was a set procedure and didn’t need revisiting!
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
As weird as it sounds. Yes, start at the left front wheel cylinder and work your way away from the MC.

Like you, I was taught to start at the furthest away wheel cylinder and work my closer to the MC. It works, don't fight it.


Front axle first. Wheel cylinder farthest first from MC on each axle.

EG left hand drive start with front right wheel cylinder. Right hand drive start with front left side wheel cylinder.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

With air in both circuits, when you try to pump bleed the rear circuit first you are first pushing against the front circuit in the MC. So it is like having a huge fluffy pillow over the brake pedal when first rear bleeding.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

From the VW Service Manuals:

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67rustavenger
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

As weird as it sounds. Yes, start at the left front wheel cylinder and work your way away from the MC.

Like you, I was taught to start at the furthest away wheel cylinder and work my closer to the MC. It works, don't fight it.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 brake reservoir questions Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
If DOT5 is spongy, it is not noticeable to us. DOT5 is somewhat thicker than DOT3, so it holds onto small air bubbles more. Think that is why folks report spongy feel. Do not do the stupid monkey trick of shaking the bottle before opening to feel how much fluid is in it, that makes small air bubbles, just pour it into the reservoir slowly. Then you are better off just walking away for the night, next day bleed. That lets air bubbles work out of the fluid while sitting in the reservoir. When bleeding do not slam the pedal, doing that makes big easy to bleed bubbles turn into small frothy bubbles spread out thru the fluid. Slower smooth pedal pumping works fine.

When bleeding dual circuit MC the brake shoes need to be tight to the drums. Front axle first, rear later.

You might contact Ronnie at "Bustoration.com" even though is business is all about buses, he has always been good about finding small brake parts for us or other NOS dealers in the classifieds like heimlich or vwman6559. Even could do a search of the classifieds for "NOS" or "1967 NOS" or 67 NOS" and check out who has the most adverts listed those ways and contact them about hard to find parts.


Very helpful, thank you! I have always bled by starting at the farthest wheel cylinder and working to the closest. I always thought that was normal. Is this a special circumstance, so you’re suggesting that I start with the front? Or have I just been doing it wrong? Very Happy

Thanks again for all the suggestions!
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