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OldBeetles
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2024
Posts: 60
Location: Northeast
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 Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2024 4:12 am Post subject: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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Hi everybody. I noticed that my fuel cap lets some vapors out. I was tinkering under the hood and leaned on the gas tank and heard a hiss that was coming from the cap. I also sometimes see a tiny bit of residual fuel by the base of the filler neck.
Is this normal, or should it make a tight seal? It doesn't have the vapor hose on it like my '65 did (many years ago so going from memory here). |
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jitbba
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2013
Posts: 190
Location: Schulenburg
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2024 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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Check under the cap to see if there's cork missing
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My other ride is a Zildjian |
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 7329
Location: Durango, CO
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 25382
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2024 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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Normal, all pre-1961 gas caps are vented thru the cap via a spiral vent built into the cap. So fumes in the trunk are just the norm.
There was an accessory vent system form VW:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php...t_dir=DESC
Later type 1s had this vent built into the tank neck and vented out under the VW.
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OldBeetles
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2024
Posts: 60
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| Thanks everybody! I was hoping that the fume thing was not normal as I am sensitive to the fumes. It's not so bad when driving with the windows open, but still there. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 25382
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| OldBeetles wrote: |
| Thanks everybody! I was hoping that the fume thing was not normal as I am sensitive to the fumes. It's not so bad when driving with the windows open, but still there. |
There you go!!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2713149
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OldBeetles
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2024
Posts: 60
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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Great idea, thanks! |
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OldBeetles
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2024
Posts: 60
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| Update: In the '60-61 thread someone showed me the exact tank mine has. I ordered a cap from them, and that solved the issue of fumes. Apparently the old cap I had was stripped out. New one seals great. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 25382
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| OldBeetles wrote: |
| Update: In the '60-61 thread someone showed me the exact tank mine has. I ordered a cap from them, and that solved the issue of fumes. Apparently the old cap I had was stripped out. New one seals great. |
Do beware, if you remove the new cap and notice a hiss, that means the cap is not vented. This can cause:
1. That will cause a build up of gas/air pressure in hot weather which will push fuel thru the carb when parked, flooding the engine with fuel and thinning out or even flooding the sump oil. Too much fluid in the sump can even flood the engine enough that it gets past the rings of one or more pistons and at start up hydro-lock, possibly even bending up a piston rod.
2. While driving the fuel being sucked out of the tank can no longer be replaced with air from outside the tank causing a vacuum to build up. This can even cause fuel starvation to the engine, enough to shut it down.
3. Due to the two forces flexing the tank walls in/outward over and over, sooner or later the steel will fracture and leak fuel.
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EVfun 
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5846
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| OldBeetles wrote: |
| Update: In the '60-61 thread someone showed me the exact tank mine has. I ordered a cap from them, and that solved the issue of fumes. Apparently the old cap I had was stripped out. New one seals great. |
This is not a '60 tank:
A '57-'60 tank looks like this:
The photo was posted by ATLvolksfan
I also notice in this photo the gas cap extension setup that provided a sealed and vented tank. Normally the 1960 and older Bugs run a vented gas cap and they do tend to have a bit of a gas smell because of that. The sealed and vented topper should move the gas smell out of the trunk area to an open vent behind the tire, like on 1961 through 1967 Bugs. If you park it in a garage you will likely still notice a bit of gas smell. This is pretty much true for all Bugs (and all other cars) too old to have a charcoal can vapor recovery system.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 2812
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| OldBeetles wrote: |
| Update: In the '60-61 thread someone showed me the exact tank mine has. I ordered a cap from them, and that solved the issue of fumes. Apparently the old cap I had was stripped out. New one seals great. |
This is not a '60 tank:
A '57-'60 tank looks like this:
The photo was posted by ATLvolksfan
I also notice in this photo the gas cap extension setup that provided a sealed and vented tank. Normally the 1960 and older Bugs run a vented gas cap and they do tend to have a bit of a gas smell because of that. The sealed and vented topper should move the gas smell out of the trunk area to an open vent behind the tire, like on 1961 through 1967 Bugs. If you park it in a garage you will likely still notice a bit of gas smell. This is pretty much true for all Bugs (and all other cars) too old to have a charcoal can vapor recovery system. |
My 58 Bug was that blue color, I sure miss that car, it was a real peach. loved it. |
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56Cabrio
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 1993
Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
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RUNKLE
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 5148
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| This is not a '60 tank: |
He knows that, and we’ve been through this already - he’s going to use the tank anyway, why not, it’s new.
| RUNKLE wrote: |
That’s a 60mm small neck tank - it’s factory, but wrong for your year. That tank was used intermittently from late 1952 to 1955, and usually associated with zwitter model 1952 to 1953. They are unusual - I’m going to stop short of calling them rare, as when the word rare is introduced suddenly things become gold plated. That tank looks oddly clean - either someone did a nice restoration or it’s a reproduction… I don’t think the small neck tanks are being reproduced.
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| OldBeetles wrote: |
Thanks, that's great information. I had no idea it was the wrong tank and no idea where it came from.
Looks like the tank is either restored or a reproduction. The inside of the tank is pristine as well. |
| RUNKLE wrote: |
I did a little Go Ogling, and yes, they do reproduce the small neck tank… so what’s the fun in that.
https://www2.cip1.com/VWC-111-201-075-B/?gad_sourc...gKEyvD_BwE
If it’s clean inside like you said, and given the outward appearance, I would say that tank is a reproduction. The correct tank would be the hump tank that House posted. |
| OldBeetles wrote: |
Looks like you found my exact tank! Interesting that whoever bought it went with that particular tank..
Side note, I just ordered the cap from that site. Mine seems to have a nit of a leak. |
Link to thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10311200&highlight=#10311200
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1950 Standard - 1959 Ragtop - 1961 Ragtop two fold - 1964 Sunroof
Type 3
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5846
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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I wasn't IN that thread (I don't read every post on theSamba). The cap he has on there now looks like a '61-'67 style cap. Those caps are sealed. Those tanks have a separate vent line. If he installed one of those caps on an unvented aftermarket gas tank he could run into trouble, either by pressurizing the tank in hot weather and flooding the engine, or driving long enough to pull a vacuum on the tank and starve the engine of fuel.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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RUNKLE
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 5148
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| The cap he has on there now looks like a '61-'67 style cap. Those caps are sealed. Those tanks have a separate vent line. If he installed one of those caps on an unvented aftermarket gas tank he could run into trouble, either by pressurizing the tank in hot weather and flooding the engine, or driving long enough to pull a vacuum on the tank and starve the engine of fuel. |
‘61-‘67 cap will not fit - the neck on that tank is 60mm.
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1950 Standard - 1959 Ragtop - 1961 Ragtop two fold - 1964 Sunroof
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5846
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| RUNKLE wrote: |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| The cap he has on there now looks like a '61-'67 style cap. Those caps are sealed. Those tanks have a separate vent line. If he installed one of those caps on an unvented aftermarket gas tank he could run into trouble, either by pressurizing the tank in hot weather and flooding the engine, or driving long enough to pull a vacuum on the tank and starve the engine of fuel. |
‘61-‘67 cap will not fit - the neck on that tank is 60mm.
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Interesting. It looks like he may have this gas cap. I see it is not vented, like the stock 70mm Bug gas cap. Having either a vented gas tank or a vented gas cap is important. Bugs up through '60 did not come with a vented tank, so if that tank is a reproduction of the '52-'53 tank (as it appears) then the tank isn't vented.
The whole fuel smell thing is normal for garaged Bugs through '67 and outdoor stored Bugs through '60. (and many old American cars too). Unless or until the gas tank is vented to a charcoal canister the tank fumes are released to the air.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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RUNKLE
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 5148
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| EVfun wrote: |
Interesting. It looks like he may have this gas cap. I see it is not vented, like the stock 70mm Bug gas cap. Having either a vented gas tank or a vented gas cap is important. Bugs up through '60 did not come with a vented tank, so if that tank is a reproduction of the '52-'53 tank (as it appears) then the tank isn't vented.
The whole fuel smell thing is normal for garaged Bugs through '67 and outdoor stored Bugs through '60. (and many old American cars too). Unless or until the gas tank is vented to a charcoal canister the tank fumes are released to the air. |
The image of the tank from his gallery is not of the new cap, it is of the cap he purchased not knowing he had a much earlier tank. From my understanding in regards to his last post above, he now has the correct cap.
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Type 1
1950 Standard - 1959 Ragtop - 1961 Ragtop two fold - 1964 Sunroof
Type 3
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OldBeetles
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2024
Posts: 60
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| Interesting notes, thanks for posting everybody! I did in fact buy the cip1 cap for the tank that's in my car. I am not sure if it is pressure vented or not, but will check when the weather starts getting hot again. Worst case I can always manually release the pressure once in a while. |
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RUNKLE
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 5148
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| OldBeetles wrote: |
| Interesting notes, thanks for posting everybody! I did in fact buy the cip1 cap for the tank that's in my car. I am not sure if it is pressure vented or not, but will check when the weather starts getting hot again. Worst case I can always manually release the pressure once in a while. |
So you didn’t get the vented cap?… every “once in a while” is going to happen sooner than you think.
Vented cap : https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-211-201-551/?srsltid=Afm...N-cLbzNg5r
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Type 1
1950 Standard - 1959 Ragtop - 1961 Ragtop two fold - 1964 Sunroof
Type 3
1968 Squareback |
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OldBeetles
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2024
Posts: 60
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap on a '60 |
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| RUNKLE wrote: |
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| OldBeetles wrote: |
| Interesting notes, thanks for posting everybody! I did in fact buy the cip1 cap for the tank that's in my car. I am not sure if it is pressure vented or not, but will check when the weather starts getting hot again. Worst case I can always manually release the pressure once in a while. |
So you didn’t get the vented cap?… every “once in a while” is going to happen sooner than you think.
Vented cap : https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-211-201-551/?srsltid=Afm...N-cLbzNg5r
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This is the one I got:
1 × C24-211-201-551 - 111115485 - NON-VENTED GAS CAP 60MM - BUS 55-67 - ALSO FITS BEETLE/BUS 60MM AFTERMARKET FUEL TANKS - ALSO FIT ALL STOCK OIL FILLERS FROM 1961-1974 - PLEASE NOTE: THIS CAP IS NON-VENTED - SOLD EACH
Seems like I may need to rethink this choice. |
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