Author |
Message |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:27 am Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
Out of the 4 small hose sections two were extremely swollen and deteriorating, the two lower sections were ps return hoses, the ones tucked under my reservoir are a mystery because I don't remember installing or buying, but it started out as a thrifty build and was refined over the years but obviously I had overlooked those hoses sections when doing maintenance. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 9:05 am Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
Yes the front brake circuit inlet was particularly dirty, I believe this is what caused the problem. I admit I had been neglecting the maintenance recently. Overloading yourself, and your schedule is not good. I was doing full time, training someone and wasn't keeping my schedule tight. I was going for a fast food dinner 10 miles up the road after working 14hrs when I crashed. Also had parked the car a week prior due to a "funny feeeling" and decided to hop it in that nite care free... dumb ass decision. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
kvasilak Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2024 Posts: 49 Location: Minnrsota
|
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2024 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
so the Root cause was non brake fluid resistant line in the remote fill?
Makes sense, dirt in the seal and oops no brakes. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 9:28 am Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
Yes thats a collapsable section, I did that years ago after pistol petes accident, you can probably still find the old thread here.. And yes, sadly the pan is massively bent. Most of the impact was taken by the drivers front tire. I can straighten it again... The whole front clip is from taiwan. My grandmother had crashed it once before in 1971 and the pan heads been straightened once already. I tacked the free to me clip on a decade ago to make a driver out of it never finished because it didnt fit very well. The gas tank supports were fully replaced and welded but I neved finished the sheet metal work.
I think Phil nailed it, clogged up my brakes with rubber. Seen it a hundred times in a carb, I guess enough rubber in thr brakes is not good...  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 3105
|
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
What year Bug? you got a collapsible steering shaft, that is modern. but peanut front signals, and i am trying to figure what front bumper mount. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 3105
|
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
I dont see the bent frame head, which photo? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Hakka Samba Member

Joined: November 21, 2004 Posts: 622 Location: PNW or Norway
|
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
Frame head looks bent. Door statement is a hard one also. Without a lot of metal work and careful measuring this car is toast.
Sorry to hear about your situation. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
KTPhil wrote: |
Fuel line is not brake fluid resistant. I wonder if the hoses broke down internally and clogged a port in the master or wheel cylinder. |
I think you're on it, check out the debris in video. Those hoses are 15 years old.
Link
Link
Last edited by shanered on Thu Dec 05, 2024 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
KTPhil  Samba Member

Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 35322 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
Fuel line is not brake fluid resistant. I wonder if the hoses broke down internally and clogged a port in the master or wheel cylinder. _________________ Current Fleet:
- '71 Fastback
- '69 Westfalia
Retired:
- '67 Beetle
- '65 Beetle (x2)
- '65 Bus
- '71 Squareback |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
the shorter switch was on the rear brakes |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
zerotofifty wrote: |
shanered wrote: |
Quick prelude to update, maybe found the culprit I believe.... maybe... The master cylinder although casting is sloppy doesn't seem to have any obvious flaws, it's quite dirty and the mysterious brake switch I had plugged into the front circuit has a millimeter less thread than the one inthe rear circuit and seems to have been bottomed out on the housing not the sealing area.... It was like this a couple years and was not leaking externally but logically seems like it could let air in on the plungers return which me brain thinks may let a bit of air in and not get quite the pump your expecting on the next stop.... Still not 100 percent but I've got some pics and videos to upload and a new German master cylinder from jbugs on the way which I will install without altering or adjusting anything else and we will see if the problem persists. Thanks again everyone for all of the good advice and perspective, if this helps anyone or prevents any injuries, vw related nose jobs flesh or steel worth all the time spent on the screens right.? |
If the fitting did not leak fluid out, it unlikely leaked air in. That fitting is exposed to fluid braking pressure, it should have leaked out fluid if it also let air in. If air ingress was gradual, you would have experienced spongy brake well before the crash. I think this diagnosis is not correct given that you say it did not leak fluid out.
The stock switch has a tapered thread, there is no sealing surface other than the threads |
I agree, but was not leaking long enough to notice and when the scenario was attempted to be duplicated and pedal would hold with no fade, then without warning on next pump just nothing. Next pump, right back to top no fade.. It was an eerie feeling, 20 years experience w brakes, hundred cars and a dozens Master failures....never had that. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 3105
|
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:18 am Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
shanered wrote: |
Quick prelude to update, maybe found the culprit I believe.... maybe... The master cylinder although casting is sloppy doesn't seem to have any obvious flaws, it's quite dirty and the mysterious brake switch I had plugged into the front circuit has a millimeter less thread than the one inthe rear circuit and seems to have been bottomed out on the housing not the sealing area.... It was like this a couple years and was not leaking externally but logically seems like it could let air in on the plungers return which me brain thinks may let a bit of air in and not get quite the pump your expecting on the next stop.... Still not 100 percent but I've got some pics and videos to upload and a new German master cylinder from jbugs on the way which I will install without altering or adjusting anything else and we will see if the problem persists. Thanks again everyone for all of the good advice and perspective, if this helps anyone or prevents any injuries, vw related nose jobs flesh or steel worth all the time spent on the screens right.? |
If the fitting did not leak fluid out, it unlikely leaked air in. That fitting is exposed to fluid braking pressure, it should have leaked out fluid if it also let air in. If air ingress was gradual, you would have experienced spongy brake well before the crash. I think this diagnosis is not correct given that you say it did not leak fluid out.
The stock switch has a tapered thread, there is no sealing surface other than the threads |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Cusser Samba Member

Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 32487 Location: Hot Arizona
|
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:06 am Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
shanered wrote: |
the mysterious brake switch I had plugged into the front circuit has a millimeter less thread than the one in the rear circuit and seems to have been bottomed out on the housing not the sealing area |
Yes, smart to have noticed this and obtaining new parts to fix this. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2024 9:14 am Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
Quick prelude to update, maybe found the culprit I believe.... maybe... The master cylinder although casting is sloppy doesn't seem to have any obvious flaws, it's quite dirty and the mysterious brake switch I had plugged into the front circuit has a millimeter less thread than the one inthe rear circuit and seems to have been bottomed out on the housing not the sealing area.... It was like this a couple years and was not leaking externally but logically seems like it could let air in on the plungers return which me brain thinks may let a bit of air in and not get quite the pump your expecting on the next stop.... Still not 100 percent but I've got some pics and videos to upload and a new German master cylinder from jbugs on the way which I will install without altering or adjusting anything else and we will see if the problem persists. Thanks again everyone for all of the good advice and perspective, if this helps anyone or prevents any injuries, vw related nose jobs flesh or steel worth all the time spent on the screens right.? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
shanered Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2022 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 10:55 am Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
I'm definitely eventually going to get it fixed. I picked up the green one for parts, but it's too nice to chop, numbers match etc. You can see where the Taiwan clip separated at the weld from too much heat, so the approach will be different, panels back together w/better equipment and German metal. My front beam is in a different spot now, doors opening is arched so idk. It's pretty bent.. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Root_Werks Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2007 Posts: 968 Location: San Juan Islands
|
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
Do you think you'll get the Bug back on the road again?
Never totaled a Bug before, but been in a few incidents that required a fender, one I think even a fender and hood. Bugs don't fare well against other cars or objects in general for that matter. _________________ When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
DUNTOVFAN Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2023 Posts: 109 Location: Fremont
|
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:47 am Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
Thank you OP for giving me a swift kick in the ass with your post. The brakes in my Bug need to be bleed and I keep putting it off and driving it,very cautiously,no more. Gonna bleed those brakes. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
67rustavenger Samba Member

Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 10403 Location: Oregon
|
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: CRASH3D GRANDMAS CAR,BRAKE FAILURE!!! After two decades |
|
|
my3bugs wrote: |
this reminded me of the time i was about 20 years old and wrecked a 67 bug , i lost two front teeth to the steering wheel , your mouth is never the same after stuff like that , im 69 now . i usually drive in the slow lane of the freeways , no need for speed , but i still like a little PEP when ya want it or NEED it ..... and GOOD brakes !!!
i was young n dumb back then !!! |
Kindered spirts here. I too totaled my first 67 way back in 1982. In a moment of inattentive driving and I rear ended a Dasher at 35mph.
I didn't loose any teeth but my head did hit the windshield and I got a cut on one of my fingers from the broken horn ring.
Now a days, if I want to drive extremely fast. I take one of my 67's to the drag strip and do some fun, legal adrenaline producing blats down the strip.
When I updated my 67 front brakes to disc. I gravity bled them. Surprisingly, it worked and I have great pedal feel. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|