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aquifer
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Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 175
Location: Nebraska
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 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:07 pm Post subject: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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I’m in the process of installing a new throwout bearing and transmission mounts in preparation for reinstalling the transmission in my 67.
The picture below probably doesn’t show it very well, but the throwout bearing is not centered laterally on the input shaft. I can kind of get the tip of my pinky finger between the bearing and the input shaft on the left side, but not on the right side.
To help narrow down the problem, I measured the input shaft’s distance to the bell housing in all directions, and it is perfectly fine.
The problem seems to be that the throwout bearing shaft is slid too far to the left, like it needs another washer between the snap ring and the case on that side. I released the snap rings and the return spring so I could slide the shaft around to see what I could see. There is a washer between the inner snap ring and the case, but it looks like it needs another washer in order to push the shaft to the right.
That doesn’t seem right, so I’m wondering what I should do to fix the problem. Maybe I need a new shaft, bushings, snap rings, etc?
There is a rubber bushing in the case that the shaft goes through on the left side. Shouldn’t that be a brass bushing?
Here is a picture for reference:
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WrennMetallWerks
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Eric&Barb
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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The plastic kind of rubbery operating shaft bushing was a 1970s cost cutting measure by VW. The earlier brass bushing is a much better part.
Have had to install a special shim/washer from our local fastener shop to move the operating shaft over to the right.
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
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Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 12:38 am Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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I just went through this with a bushing kit from wolfsburg west. The bushing ID was too tight and the length was wrong. Weddle has the right parts and they fit right the first time with no adjustement!
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aquifer
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Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 175
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:49 am Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| I just went through this with a bushing kit from wolfsburg west. The bushing ID was too tight and the length was wrong. Weddle has the right parts and they fit right the first time with no adjustement! |
This is helpful, thank you. Did yours have the rubber bushing? And did you convert it to a brass bushing from Weddle? Did you order a new cross shaft too?
I think all I’m seeing on the Weddle site is heavy duty cross shafts. Is that what you ordered? I don’t need a HD setup, but if it fits and works, and uses a brass bushing, I think that’s what I need.
Does a standard Sachs TO bearing work with their cross shafts (if you ordered their cross shaft)?
Sorry for the questions.
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
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Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:41 am Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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Yes to all of the above, except I can’t remember about the original bushing. The reason HD throw out shafts are so common is because the welds are a failure prone weak spot, so “HD” really just means “fully welded bearing forks” in this case. It’s not an “upgrade,” but is a good replacement.
Because I did not want to drop the motor again for the same problem, I opted to buy the shaft and all. No regrets, and it was about $100 or so for everything.
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Robert in Memphis
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aquifer
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Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 175
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:09 am Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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| scrivyscriv wrote: |
Yes to all of the above, except I can’t remember about the original bushing. The reason HD throw out shafts are so common is because the welds are a failure prone weak spot, so “HD” really just means “fully welded bearing forks” in this case. It’s not an “upgrade,” but is a good replacement.
Because I did not want to drop the motor again for the same problem, I opted to buy the shaft and all. No regrets, and it was about $100 or so for everything. |
Thank you again. I ordered the stuff from Weddle. I have a four day weekend coming up and my plan was/is to get the bug back together as much as possible. I wasn't expecting the cross shaft issue, but I'm glad I noticed it. To keep my plans intact, I chose "get it here immediately" shipping. 
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aquifer
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Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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OK I got the new cross shaft, bushing, snap rings, etc today. Does anyone know how the throwout bearing retainer clips should work? I’m posting some pictures below, but I have no idea how to orient those spring clips to keep the bearing attached to the cross shaft arms.
The old one (which looked original to me) had a rounded out spot where the clips hooked, basically around the back of the arms. On the new arms, there is only a hole presumably for the clips to hook into. I can get one clip on, but no way on earth will the other side clip together that I can see.
I’m doing something wrong, so any instructions would be appreciated! Right now I’m just mocking it up on the bench until I can understand how the clips work before I install the shaft.
Here are the pictures of what I’m talking about:
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Busstom
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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| aquifer wrote: |
| I can get one clip on, but no way on earth will the other side clip together that I can see. |
I've never used that type of clip, but it looks like you have the one side on correctly.
I'm wondering if you're supposed to hook both clips onto the arms, and then feed the bearing in while simultaneously aligning/inserting both clips into the yokes of the bearing 
Almost like installing a decklid, eh?
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| cory464 wrote: |
| if you aren't perfectly centered in the hole you will have issues when you tap it. |
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aquifer
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Posts: 175
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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| Busstom wrote: |
| aquifer wrote: |
| I can get one clip on, but no way on earth will the other side clip together that I can see. |
I've never used that type of clip, but it looks like you have the one side on correctly.
I'm wondering if you're supposed to hook both clips onto the arms, and then feed the bearing in while simultaneously aligning/inserting both clips into the yokes of the bearing
Almost like installing a decklid, eh? |
Yes, I'm stumped. I got the one side in simply because the other side of the bearing was free to jack around until the clip went into both the arm and the bearing. But there's no way to get the other clip in while the first clip is in place, or while the clips are hooked to the arms. There just isn't any play.
It binds like crazy too, which doesn't seem right to me. The bearing should be free to pivot in the arms, but in this setup it binds so much that whatever angle the bearing was at when it disengaged from the clutch, that's where it would stay. It just doesn't feel right to me yet, so I'm missing something.
I definitely haven't figured it out yet, but the little holes in the arms have to be for some purpose you'd think.
I may end up using my original cross shaft. It's not fully welded like the new one, but I guess the original one has lasted 58 years, so maybe being fully welded doesn't matter.
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Cusser
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Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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I've never seen a cross shaft without the recesses for the retaining spring. Yes, I do use the springs with the coils as he showed.
I'd
(1) contact the supplier of that cross shaft unless I got real good responses here
(2) wear eye protection, installing those in your new cross shaft looks daunting !
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aquifer
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Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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I have reached out to Weddle and they did reply pretty fast, but they knew less than I do about how to install the clips, which was no help. Maybe the knowledgeable person is out for Thanksgiving break.
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aquifer
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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As I continue to stare at the problem, I think that the "straight" arm on the clips needs to be shorter. That would allow the clips to fully engage into the holes and into the bearing before they "bottom out" in the bearing, which would solve the binding problem. Still not sure how I would get both clips installed though.
I appreciate all the thoughts. It often helps to just think out loud until the answer appears! Odd that they sell these things with no apparent way to make them fit together. That fact alone makes me think I'm missing something simple.
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scrivyscriv
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scrivyscriv
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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If the spring type clips don’t fit, don’t hesitate to use the stock straight clips.
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Robert in Memphis
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aquifer
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Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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The pictures help, thank you. The stock clips you used also have a little hook on the end to act as a keeper. I have a set of those that I can use.
Did you put the clips in the bearing first or in the arm first? Or how did you get the hooks through the little hole in the arms?
Maybe I didn't need to order the heavy duty clips, and that's what is throwing me off. Maybe those are made for some kind of brutal duty setup or something. I probably need to do just what you did, if I can figure out how to get the hooks in the holes and into the bearing at the same time!
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scrivyscriv
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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The angled ends go into the holes on the arms first, and you’ll just need to finesse the straight ends into the bearing. They will kind of snap in place with a fairly loose fit
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Cusser
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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| aquifer wrote: |
| I have reached out to Weddle and they did reply pretty fast, but they knew less than I do about how to install the clips, which was no help. |
Well, I'm still waiting several weeks for city of Phoenix to figure out why I get a "404 not found" when I click on their new link to schedule bulk trash (I did figure out a workaround: I had to use Google Chrome and open up a link E-mail in that, and then click on the same link).
Of course, I've also been waiting since 1994 for a local transmission shop to respond like they promised to explain how my the supposed black ATF in the requested ATF change in our just-acquired 1988 Suburban had turned pink in a couple of hours (of course it was a scam to scare Mrs. Cusser into buying a new transmission).
OK, back to topic. If mine, I'd put on my safety glasses, and try a genuine Vise Grips to get the straight end of the clips into the holes in the ends of the throwout bearing, after getting the curved end into place first.
I do similar with a Vise Grips to rotate those clips into the recess on the traditional cross shaft.
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aquifer
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Posts: 175
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| aquifer wrote: |
| I have reached out to Weddle and they did reply pretty fast, but they knew less than I do about how to install the clips, which was no help. |
Well, I'm still waiting several weeks for city of Phoenix to figure out why I get a "404 not found" when I click on their new link to schedule bulk trash (I did figure out a workaround: I had to use Google Chrome and open up a link E-mail in that, and then click on the same link).
Of course, I've also been waiting since 1994 for a local transmission shop to respond like they promised to explain how my the supposed black ATF in the requested ATF change in our just-acquired 1988 Suburban had turned pink in a couple of hours (of course it was a scam to scare Mrs. Cusser into buying a new transmission).
OK, back to topic. If mine, I'd put on my safety glasses, and try a genuine Vise Grips to get the straight end of the clips into the holes in the ends of the throwout bearing, after getting the curved end into place first.
I do similar with a Vise Grips to rotate those clips into the recess on the traditional cross shaft. |
I've had the same kind of experiences. That's why I tell my staff here to always return phone calls, and always do what you promise. People remember that stuff!
A little follow up on Weddle, speaking of doing what they said: They quickly replied to my email, and I replied with another question, and they ended up calling me. The owner is out til Monday, but this guy had actually gotten the parts off the shelf (he said) and tried to replicate my problem. He didn't have the right tools to brutalize it with, but he suggested the vice grips like you suggested. Good on them for calling me and trying to be helpful. He said he would take the parts to the boss on Monday and see what he says.
Tomorrow afternoon is when I'll resume my problem solving. I might try sheer force on the new clips, and I will also look at using the original clips. Still on the table for me is the option to return to the stock cross shaft with the recesses on the back of the arms, and acknowledge that I wouldn't be using the fully welded shaft from Weddle in that case.
I'll report back with my findings. Meanwhile, if there are other ideas, I'm all ears! Or eyes, as the case may be for an online forum.
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Zwitterkafer
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 10:43 am Post subject: Re: 67 throwout bearing off center |
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| aquifer wrote: |
| As I continue to stare at the problem, I think that the "straight" arm on the clips needs to be shorter. That would allow the clips to fully engage into the holes and into the bearing before they "bottom out" in the bearing, which would solve the binding problem. Still not sure how I would get both clips installed though. |
This. Same thing happened to me. I shortened the straight ends of the clips appropriately. Not all clips are made to the same dimensions as stock, a side by side comparison can be useful. Also watch out for differences in the release bearings: The holes in the pivot ends might not be deep enough, or as deep as stock. When assembled, the tip of the straight end of the clip likely should not be subject to any axial pressure.
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