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Clutch Cable Tube?
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ezrydr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Clutch Cable Tube? Reply with quote

thanks to all you guys who post info on this forum - what a wealth of information here for us newbies.
I wouldnt have any udea of where to even begin without thesamba.com and its contributors.

My question is about the 'clutch cable tube' - is there supposed to be a metal tube welded up inside the VW chassis tunnel that the clutch cable runs in? On the buggy I am working on the clutch cable seems to be 'floating' freely in the tunnel. I cannot see that there is any sort of tube - just the cable running from the pedal assembly to the clutch lever on the trans.

The PO ran the buggy this way but if its not correct I'd like to make it right.

thanks
Steve
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there should be a metal tube (well secured) in the tunnel of the pan. You will need to replace it to make the clutch work correctly or else go to hydraulics.

brad
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ezrydr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm - that sure ain't what I wanted to hear Brad.

Its going to be interseting (to say the least!) to try and repair/replace whatever is in there.

The hydraulic option sounds like something worth looking into

Is that something that can be readily purchased and bolted in?
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a system Saco builds which mounts the master cylinder inside the tunnel. Its invisible when installed but requires cutting a hole in the tunnel which can weaken it.

What I've done is mounted a master cylinder on a homemade bracket next to the brake master cylinder. Then I welded a small tab on the back of the clutch pedal arm and drilled a hole in the body for the pushrod to pass through. I connected the pushrod to the tab with a clevis.

There are several clutch slave cylinders available.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to replace the clutch tube all you need it 1/2 .065 wall tubing. Just cut 2 holes in the tunnel on the passenger side, one up by the pedal assembly and one just behind the e-brake location to weld the tube to. Once the tube is welded in just weld the pieces back into the tunnel that you cut to access the tube mounting points and your done. Dont forget to weld the tube where it comes out the back of the tunnel.
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manxdavid
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like your chassis could've started out under a Beetle with an automatic or semi-auto transmission. Some of them didn't come with conduits from the factory.
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a set up I'm going to use on my next Bug build. Clutch shaft was lengthened and a bushing added to thte passenger side of the tunnel. then run the clutch master out the front where the brake master would be on a RHD car. But welding in a tube might be your easiest choice if you don't have a bunch of tools to fab up such a system.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


brad
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Nice design and work.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
Here's a set up I'm going to use on my next Bug build. Clutch shaft was lengthened and a bushing added to thte passenger side of the tunnel. then run the clutch master out the front where the brake master would be on a RHD car. But welding in a tube might be your easiest choice if you don't have a bunch of tools to fab up such a system.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


brad


That's brilliant...good job!!!
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peteandvanessa
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Clucth Cabel Tube? Reply with quote

ezrydr wrote:
thanks to all you guys who post info on this forum - what a wealth of information here for us newbies.
I wouldnt have any udea of where to even begin without thesamba.com and its contributors.

My question is about the 'clutch cable tube' - is there supposed to be a metal tube welded up inside the VW chassis tunnel that the clutch cable runs in? On the buggy I am working on the clutch cable seems to be 'floating' freely in the tunnel. I cannot see that there is any sort of tube - just the cable running from the pedal assembly to the clutch lever on the trans.

The PO ran the buggy this way but if its not correct I'd like to make it right.

thanks
Steve


The PO of my Buggy for some reason removed the clutch cable tube, I found that out when I replaced the clutch cable. So my cable doesn't run in a clutch tube in the tunnel. Ive been running mine that way for the last two years without any issues so far Smile
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ezrydr
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks much for the replies guys.

Interesting comment about the automatic tranny - the chassis numbers indicate a 1962 chassis. Did they have the automatic trans back then?

I couldn't get any info from PO but it sure looks like he was driving it this way with the clutch cable floating in the tunnel.

I am not going to leave it this way but just out of curiosity only and since I cannot test drive this thing for awhile, what kind of issues would I expect to see driving it with the clutch cable set up as it is?

I do have some fabrication abilities

BL3 Manx - I kind of like that idea - so did you buy the master cylinder from SACO?

Brad - that's some nice work there!

As an aside - the tunnel of my chassis already has some holes cut in it so i do have some access to the inside. From other reading it sounds like these holes need to be welded back shut at some point to keep the integrity of the chassis intact.

Thanks!
Steve
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ezrydr wrote:
BL3 Manx - I kind of like that idea - so did you buy the master cylinder from SACO?


No, The SACO kit is designed to be mounted inside the tunnel. I used some parts like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CNC-VW-BAJA-BUG-HYDRAULIC-CLUTCH-SLAVE-CYLINDER-KIT-/150630868788

Make sure you weld strong patches over the extra holes you have in your tunnel or it will eventually crack.
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peteandvanessa
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ezrydr wrote:
what kind of issues would I expect to see driving it with the clutch cable set up as it is?

Steve


When I looked at mine (I took the inspection plate off at the front of the frame) and shone a flashlight down inside the tunnel, the cable has a straight, un-restricted "run" from the clutch pedal to the back of the car where it exits the tunnel at the bowden tube. It doesn't rub or fray along the entire route inside the tunnel.

I haven't found any issues driving it at all. There hasn't been any problems with engaging or dis-engaging the clutch, or any sagging/stretching of the cable, or any issues of changing up or down gears. The only reason I realised there wasn't a clutch tube in the tunnel, was the fact that the P/O had left the old tube in the tunnel and it vibrated in the tunnel at certain speeds. Hence I opened up the inspection plate and pulled out the free tube out of the tunnel and saw that the cable was just run without a clutch tube.
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as you have a short piece of steel tube welded in back to guide the cable and for the bowden tube to mount on, and the clutch cable didn't rub the throttle or brake cable tubes, yes that could work. It might make it a bit harder to feed a replacement cable through the tunnel.
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ezrydr
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CNC-VW-BAJA-BUG-HYDRAULIC-CLUTCH-SLAVE-CYLINDER-KIT-/150630868788


any idea where a guy might find these parts? nothing on ebay right now - internet search didn't turn up much

thanks!
Steve
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB Performance:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1225
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=936

Moore Parts:
http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/6166/CNC320B/
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, Embarassed but I can't take credit for the work. It is on a PRA car that was posted on the UAC when I was asking about running a hydraulic clutch in a Beetle. I have a similar setup on my buggy but the center tube is only 1 inch wide so I don't need the longer shaft and bushing support.

this is my chassis, little hard to see the clutch arm, but the same idea. This is when I was mocking up stuff for B-ville, it's kind of a mess

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


brad
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ezrydr
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

finally had time to get the tub off the chassis and get a good luck at what is going on with this clutch cable tube. Or should I say, lack there of.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In this picture you can see that what I think is the Bowden Tube seems to be intact. However I can find no evidence of the cable tube in the tunnel.

The area circled in red appears to be a rather hideous hack job of cutting away part of the metal on the rear tunnel. I assume the PO did this toi get some access into the tunnel. I also assume the the missing clutch cable tube must have exited in the area of the tunnel where there is no longer any metal?

First question - has the strength of the tunnel been compromised by the removal of that metal?

The steel clutch cable itself is run inside a plastic tube (I have it pulled out of the tunnel). The plastic sheath/tube was not anchored anywhere inside the tunnel.


here's another shot of the rear of the tunnel where you can clearly see the hack job of the tunnel opening. I've also circled what I beleive to be the old metal fuel line. I will also replace this while I'm working in the tunnel.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by ezrydr on Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ezrydr
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's another shot

in this picture take a look at how the clutch cable is hooked up the lever on the tranny. This dies not appear correct to me. It looks like PO just used an eye bolt.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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ezrydr
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in this photo you can see the tunnel access holes the PO had cut.
These will be handy for now but once repairs have been completed they will be welded closed.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I've looked inside these access holes and down the tunnel from the front but I cannot see any evidence of the oem clutch cable tube.

So I need some help to know where thate cable tube goes. Does it run just under the accelerator cable tube along the left side of the tunnel?

Can any of you guys give an idea of approx how far back from the clutch pedal shaft that the tube should begin?

Will I need to fabricate something to go on the rear of the tunnel for the tube to exit or can I run it right out the back of the tunnel and up to the bowden tube?

Just trying to get my head around what I have here and how I am going to repair it. I want to do this right.

Thanks
Steve
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