HESI...TA..TION 34 PICT 3

[radioman]

My 73 Thing has the stock 34 PICT 3 and a new dual vacuum Dist. I cannot get rid of the off idle hesita..tion. Tweeking carb and timing has improved the situation but it...still...is...bad. I notice that I have a good bit of gas stain on the body of the carb. Nearly everywhere even though I rebuilt it a year ago and don't drive much at all. I tried the "spray some DW40 to watch for air intake leaks"....nothing. Should I rebuild again or buy a new carb? If buy is the answer, what and from whom? If a new carb isn't guaranteed to fix the problem, then I'll just stay with the " I nearly got killed" situation. I am open for your experience and suggestion.Did VW sell Things with problem or is it age???
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It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill

[TimGud]

Is the timing set right? If so try advancing the accelerator pump just a bit.

[chinarider]

I'd also be interested in hearing how this works out. I'm running a stock 1600, with a pierburg (german) 34 pict 3, and an SVDA distributor. It runs and idles great, but I do get slight hesitation when I start giving her gas when shifting from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, and from 3rd to 4th (no hesitation in first off idle). I find that if I punch the pedal right after shifting (i.e., floor it), I don't get much hesitation at all, but that's no way to drive a VW. It's more noticable going uphill. Is this similar to what yours is doing? Timing, etc. seem to be spot on in my case, though the idle's a little low for my taste. Maybe if I advance the timing just a smidge....? How exactly do you advance the accellerator pump?

[radioman]

TimGud: Timing is at spec 5 degrees ATDC. I adjusted the electric choke so that it is closed fully when cold and opens fully after about 3 minutes. Last night I (think) I adjusted the accel pump : using an 8 mm , I loosened the litttle notched thing on the right side of the carby, and moved it to the REAR, which seemed, visually to remove the tiny bit of slop between the accelerator shaft and the little rod that goes to the accel pump. It may be better but did not fix the hes si ta tion. Thinking should rebuild the carby although I did that a year ago when I had this problem. New carb? I hope not.
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It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill

[TimGud]

Before you rebuild it try giving the accelerator pump just a bit more advance. I say that because you mentioned there was some slop in there and you said you just took out the slop. Won't hurt anything if it's not just the adjustment.
Chinarider:. just make sure you don't get past 30-32 deg total advance on the ignition timing as it will cause predetonation, and if left that way will eventually burn a hole in the piston.
I have found that if there are no vacuum leaks, and the accelerator pump rod doesn't hit the generator or alternator,then the acc. pump timing will almost always take the hesitation out. Good luck.

[keifernet]

Other things to look for are...

the brass "shooter tube" for the accel pump should be pointed twords the edge of the butterfly so the shot goes straight down past it as soon as the throttle is opened.

Using a "jet drill" ( Timgud, you got yours from Kymco diddn't you?) you can drill out the hole in the end a bit larger and that helps.

When adjusting the accel pump... yes the linkage will take out the slop but if it does not begin to squirt the fuel the instant you pull the throttle arm, then the diaphram is probably gotten hard and needs to be re-placed.

Also on you distrib... check to make sure that the advance plate is very free ( so that when the vacume diaphram pulls on it it operates as freely as possible) and under the rotor you will notice ( if it is there) a small felt circle... this is to be lubed occasionally ( and it is often neglected) as the stock distributors have both the vacume and mechanical advance.
If this spot has not been lubed then the mechanical advance can be sticking or even frozen.

Also sucking on the hose to see if the vacume advance is pulling good... then touch your tounge on the hose and see if it stays or if it "drifts back" if it does slowly drift back ( lose vacume) then the diaprhram is old and going to go bad soon... seek replacement.

Twist the rotor and see if it "springs back" freely... if not then a shot of pentrating oil and working it back and forth by hand with the rotor ( or even better a medium pair of vice grips lightly clamped where the rotor fits) will free it up.

I usually do all this cleaning and checking with the distrib out on the work bench and or chucked up in the bench vise.

Then with the timing light attached... watch how smooth and fast the timing advances! (A before and after check of this determines just how bad is was and how well the cleaning/ maintenance of the distributor worked)

Whew, I feel better now!

[TimGud]

Yes keith I did get it at Kymco. Your reply is very thorough as usual!

[keifernet]

[radioman]

Kief et al: Keep it up. Am going out of town fishing this weekend so the
Thing will have to wait. On return will apply ya'lls advice. Will let you know how it goes. You know, this is not only frustrating, but it is dangerous as well. My wife refuses to drive the Thing because of this. (Well....maybe that ain't a problem.
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It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill

[radioman]

Have made some progress before leaving town. Having messed around with "pieces" of the problem, I started all over. First I tweaked the electric choke(engine cold)which was not adjusted properly). Then I checked the points gap (which was a bit wide). Then checked the timing (WHEN THE ENGINE WAS FULLY WARMED) which was a bit too advanced. Then I again tweaked the accel. pump adjustment to be sure all the slop was out and that the pump MOVED at the very instant of the fuel lever. Now it does. Then with the engine fully warmed I went through the entire carb adjustment start to finish just as if the carb had been rebuilt. Then I rechecked the timing. Then redid the carb again. Then the timing again. MUCH BETTER. Hesitation off idle not completely gone, but now managable. Other between gear hesitation virtually gone. Engine seems to run much better. Moral: quit messing with this and that, and start at the begining and check and adjust EVERYTHING and be SURE the engine is at operating temp for the procedure.
_________________
It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill

[aeromek]

Hot VW's had a great feature on ironing out all the bug's on this carb. It would be worth your time to find this back issue. I have allways found that some research and reading will provide much quicker results (and less frustrastion) than trial and error on carbs. I run this stock carb on my wifes 1700 cc in her thing. I followed this artical to the tee and have never touched the carb since. Many of the other posts on this thread reference some of the fixes in the artical, but the key is to remove the carb and follow the steps exactly. I think you can go to hot vw's web sight and search all of their tech articals. I would also recommend removing that vacume advance distributer and replace it with the old faithfull 009. good luck

[mattt]

Removing a vacuum distributor and replacing it with an 009 is one of the worst things you can do when running a 34PICT-3. The 009 and 34 PICT dont work together unless you start modifying all sort of stuff, horrible flat spot, poor mileage, etc.
If you want to run a 34PICT, use either the stock DVDA(dual hose) distributor, or run an SVDA(single hose) dist. The SVDA can be had new for around $100 and is the best way to go. No need for the retard of the DVDA.

[radioman]

Mattt: I ran 009 on two of my former Beetles (67 and 6 just fine. Bought a brand new 009 for the 73 Thing I now own.....absolute crap...ran it two days....went back to a new dual hose vacumn. Using an 009 with a 34 PICT 3 is not a workable situation. Everybody should know this.
_________________
It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill

[Buckly]

yeah, The 009 is not the right distributor for the 34pict-3, I bought a bus with one in it and could not get it to run perfect. A friend pointed it out and gave me an old stock distributor(dual vacum/mechanical advance) he had lying around. Instant results the bus ran much better. So my question is, in what situation is the 009 used. I see alot of volks use the 009 and recommend them. They'er for sale on every VW site there is.
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Cool runnins,
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Bucky

[chinarider]

Generally speaking, the .009's are inexpensive and plentiful; that's probably the main reason that you see them in so many folks' volks.

I ran one on my stock '73 for a couple of years (.009 with a 34 pict 3, that is), and it was fine. I didn't really experience much hesitation - at least nothing that would make the car difficult to drive - but I did notice that when shifting to first just off idle, it took a moment for the distributor to advance. I didn't experience this at all through the rest of the gears, and I have to admit that freeway performance was very good (solid acceleration, and - on an closed track - I easily reached about 75mph). The downside was that I found the combination of .009 and 34 pict 3 to need very fine tuning - not overly difficult or anything - just a little more finicky.

I've since gone with an SVDA distributor/34 pict 3 combo, and it's not bad. This combo seems to idle more smoothly, and I don't get low-idle advance issues (the vacuum advance takes care of that). I will say that freeway performance isn't quite as peppy as with the .009, but oil temps are a little cooler, and in all honesty, it's not like I want to go fast anyway.

[keifernet]

Here is another old thread about this... there are many out there.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23508&highlight=advance

I can see where alot of people are having trouble with the 009s sold in the last few-maybe 5 or more years ago... the quality really fell off.

The old original GERMAN -009s are still a decent distrib IMO for certain applications/driving style.

And the flat spot can sometimes be more the carb or the way the owner times the engine than the "fault" of the distributor.

You have to know when to toss which one and try another!

You can have just as bad a flat spot with an old sticky/ worn/failing diagphram canister stock distributor too. So what would you do? rebuild it or toss it! Get another used one or shell out 100 or more for a new Mexican unit... those are the choices.
Or with an engine in improper tune or with worn internals....

And in the meantime if I had to or wanted to drive my car, I'd toss in an 009 until I got another good vacume unit. I mean it's not like the 009 makes a car totaly undriveable.

[radioman]

I ran 009 on my 67 and 68....but they were not carbed with a 34. Based on my experience I would not try to mate a 009 with a 34 PICT 3. I tried and it ain't worth it. But certainly there are people who made it work. I wasn't one of them. BTW, I have a brand new 009 for sale,
_________________
It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill