Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem
Forum Index -> Split Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
EJZero1
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Colorado Springs
EJZero1 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:06 pm    Post subject: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

Having a weird problem with getting my rear passenger pop out to latch close. With a spacer in place, the latch will only close to the point where the latch handle sticks out perpendicular to the side of the bus. At this point, the 2-hole mounting tab on the window frame makes contact with the 3-hole mounting arm on the inside of the bus, preventing it from closing any further.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note only 1 spacer in place. After these pics, I added a second spacer and was able to get the latch to close completely, but it puts a lot of torque on the mounting tab on the frame.

FWIW, I’ve not heard of needing 2 spacers on the rear pop outs. Common? If not, any other factors I should look at? I did notice the logo on this window is upside down and in the wrong corner. Are there left and right frames?

Thanks for any and all inputs!
_________________
‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ezcamper
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2001
Posts: 896
Location: Atlantic Beach, FL
ezcamper is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

Can the 3 hole part slide farther away from the window?
_________________
I make HWE style roof racks, Jim-Dandy racks, SO-33 metal parts, Dormobile racks, HWE style ladders, engine crank start handles, Westy rack tags, Binz tags, Sundial badges, State of California tags, steering lock electrical covers and single / double cab gate latch friction blocks.

instagram is http://instagram.com/bullidriversteelworks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EJZero1
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Colorado Springs
EJZero1 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

ezcamper wrote:
Can the 3 hole part slide farther away from the window?

It can, but still doesn’t provide the clearance from the window frame tab. I’ve tried this and any number of adjustment combinations here and at the slotted mounting holes on that frame tab. Pretty perplexing…
_________________
‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EJZero1
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Colorado Springs
EJZero1 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

For comparison’s sake, here are pics of the rear cargo door pop out latch from similar perspectives. Note the clearance between the mounting window tab and the 3-hole mounting arm on this latch, which closes perfectly.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hitest
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
hitest is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

I see two things going on- and this is much better than what you described on FB. Based on what I can see- the second window's latch tab is bent back- beyond 90 degrees, or at least further back than the tab on the problem window. Further, the two screws are tightened with the latch further away from the glass (and seal) than on the problem window.

I know you've tried all combos- but could it be that the latch can be fastened further away from the glass- toward the tip of the mounting tab?
Slip a shim in there to prevent the screw tightening from walking the latch further toward the glass if you know what I mean.
_________________
EverettB wrote:

I wonder what the nut looks like.



'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181

FU#5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BonTonRoulet
Samba Member


Joined: September 29, 2020
Posts: 356
Location: Mississippi
BonTonRoulet is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

I imagine things would change, quite perhaps for the better, if you firstly fitted the "outer" pop out window seal that fits in the hole of the chassis where your pop out window fits.
_________________
Never argue with an Idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member


Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 555
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
NUTSFORBUSES is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

BonTonRoulet wrote:
I imagine things would change, quite perhaps for the better, if you firstly fitted the "outer" pop out window seal that fits in the hole of the chassis where your pop out window fits.


I think You are correct.
Your seals are rotted, window is busted. See IF the window curves in or outward, that would mean the frame is not at its full spread.
A little can make a big difference. Most frames also bend at the latch when closing the latch, so a seal can make all the diff. pushing the window outward from the latch.
_________________
kaiser kills kids.com


Last edited by NUTSFORBUSES on Wed May 25, 2022 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Twitter Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BonTonRoulet
Samba Member


Joined: September 29, 2020
Posts: 356
Location: Mississippi
BonTonRoulet is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

Actually, technically, it would be the "inner" pop out seal I was thinking of that fits in the chassis. The "outer" pop out seal would be around the perimeter of the pop out window frame itself. Both are more than likely critical in making the latches work correctly as designed.
_________________
Never argue with an Idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EJZero1
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Colorado Springs
EJZero1 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

Appreciate all the inputs. Seems the consensus might be the idea that replacing the seals would aid in the correct fitment of the latches. Must admit, I hadn’t considered how new seals might factor in, but it does make a lot of sense!

New pop out seals are most certainly on the “do list”. Was just tinkering with the latches in between other major mechanical projects when I came across this issue.

Thanks again for the inputs everyone! This group is awesome!
_________________
‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clara Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12383

Clara is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

BonTonRoulet wrote:
Actually, technically, it would be the "inner" pop out seal I was thinking of that fits in the chassis. The "outer" pop out seal would be around the perimeter of the pop out window frame itself. Both are more than likely critical in making the latches work correctly as designed.


So, the inner seal is outside the outer seal? Think
pop outs have three seals, from in to out:
-between glass and frame
-out side of frame
-on body (outside of frame)

I find that having a crunchy middle seal generally allows the window to open easier. Not sure that adding a seal would help the opening/closing.

Not sure that is helpful.
Did you try swapping latches from another window? That would help identify whether the problem was the latch or the rest .
_________________
The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jonny1309
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Oside
jonny1309 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

Install the seal that goes on the body and your latches should close. This seal keeps the two arms of the latch slightly separated which will allow the latch to close.
_________________
Jonny

Barndoor Mafia wrote:
Add a cop mustache, some cholo shades and a Doyers cap to the guy in the suit .......... Tocayo.

scottvw wrote:
kiss my ass Tom....I'm without centercaps right now.

OgCalLook wrote:
nothin' wrong with: Nose down - Ass up!! Twisted Evil

Ragman wrote:
Did you tell her that Al Reed painted them?

lonslo wrote:
My tailbone still hurts like hell. Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EJZero1
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Colorado Springs
EJZero1 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

[quote="Clara"]
BonTonRoulet wrote:

Did you try swapping latches from another window? That would help identify whether the problem was the latch or the rest .

Actually, I did try different latches. It was in doing this that I found that the 3-hole arms come in different lengths. I had got my hands on a bagful of spoon latch odds and ends and had inadvertently assembled a long spoon with the wrong 3-hole arm. All long spoons now have the same size arm. Looks like the longer arm actually goes with the smaller latch for the front cargo door.

Still waiting on a pop out frame to complete the set of 6. At that point I’ll begin the arduous process of replacing all of the seals. Good times, from what I’ve seen and read!

Thanks again for all of the great inputs.
_________________
‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BonTonRoulet
Samba Member


Joined: September 29, 2020
Posts: 356
Location: Mississippi
BonTonRoulet is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

Clara wrote:
BonTonRoulet wrote:
Actually, technically, it would be the "inner" pop out seal I was thinking of that fits in the chassis. The "outer" pop out seal would be around the perimeter of the pop out window frame itself. Both are more than likely critical in making the latches work correctly as designed.


So, the inner seal is outside the outer seal? Think
pop outs have three seals, from in to out:
-between glass and frame
-out side of frame
-on body (outside of frame)

I find that having a crunchy middle seal generally allows the window to open easier. Not sure that adding a seal would help the opening/closing.

Not sure that is helpful.
Did you try swapping latches from another window? That would help identify whether the problem was the latch or the rest .


Yeah, well, take up the whole "inner" and "outer" nomenclature up with the various vendors such as West Coast Metric, Wolfsburg West....any of them where these particular seals are commonly sourced before you order the wrong parts. Sometimes the vendors might even depict a diagram and if you're really lucky a diagram of the cross section of the particular seal. The "inner" seal would be inboard of the pop out window, would it not? Conversely, the "outer" seal would be outboard of the "inner" seal, would it not?

I'm not familiar with the "middle seal". I imagine a "crunchy" one is past due for replacement if it's actually supposed to seal something.

If you can't see where a pop out window latch arm would interfere with the welded latch tab on the pop out window frame because the window/window frame itself is too close to the chassis where it would never reside with the proper "inner" seal installed in the chassis around the opening for the window, then by all means start swapping some latches around. See where that gets you. Then try using all the components that are supposed to be in the system and see where that gets you.

My engine won't start or run!
Well, where are your spark plug wires?
Meh, I didn't think I needed them.
_________________
Never argue with an Idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BonTonRoulet
Samba Member


Joined: September 29, 2020
Posts: 356
Location: Mississippi
BonTonRoulet is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

EJZero1 wrote:
Clara wrote:

Did you try swapping latches from another window? That would help identify whether the problem was the latch or the rest .

Actually, I did try different latches. It was in doing this that I found that the 3-hole arms come in different lengths. I had got my hands on a bagful of spoon latch odds and ends and had inadvertently assembled a long spoon with the wrong 3-hole arm. All long spoons now have the same size arm. Looks like the longer arm actually goes with the smaller latch for the front cargo door.

Still waiting on a pop out frame to complete the set of 6. At that point I’ll begin the arduous process of replacing all of the seals. Good times, from what I’ve seen and read!

Thanks again for all of the great inputs.


Fixed that for you. I never wrote that. Needed "Clarafication". Smile
All bets are OFF if you swapped up components in the actual latch itself!
_________________
Never argue with an Idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EJZero1
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Colorado Springs
EJZero1 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

BonTonRoulet wrote:

My engine won't start or run!
Well, where are your spark plug wires?
Meh, I didn't think I needed them.


Friggin’ classic, and admittedly so applicable in my case…
_________________
‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BonTonRoulet
Samba Member


Joined: September 29, 2020
Posts: 356
Location: Mississippi
BonTonRoulet is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

EJZero1 wrote:
BonTonRoulet wrote:

My engine won't start or run!
Well, where are your spark plug wires?
Meh, I didn't think I needed them.


Friggin’ classic, and admittedly so applicable in my case…


Not a personal dig on you my friend, just illustrating my sentence prior to that to reiterate for a "system" to actually function as it should, it needs all the components of the "system" as designed. Then if it doesn't work from there you troubleshoot the issue. Fit some new seals and follow up with us. The whole point is for all of us to learn something around here.

As GM used to say: "There are no unnecessary parts."
_________________
Never argue with an Idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.


Last edited by BonTonRoulet on Wed May 25, 2022 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member


Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 555
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
NUTSFORBUSES is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

To simplify:
A thick U shape seal goes on the Body, Then
A Flapper seal goes in the channel around the window frame and touches the U shape, Then
Another U type seal goes around the glass edge INSIDE the window frame.

NOT having the first TWO seals will upset what you are trying to do here, and can stop the latch from reaching its destination.

The latch is actually trying to squish the rubber seals together holding the window outward to GET A weather seal. You maybe going metal to metal w/o a buffer, Thus using the latch as it was NOT designed. Latches often break when the seals are brittle and hard.
(I just did a dozen of these)
_________________
kaiser kills kids.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Twitter Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EJZero1
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Colorado Springs
EJZero1 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

BonTonRoulet wrote:
EJZero1 wrote:
BonTonRoulet wrote:

My engine won't start or run!
Well, where are your spark plug wires?
Meh, I didn't think I needed them.


Friggin’ classic, and admittedly so applicable in my case…


Not a personal dig on you my friend, just illustrating my sentence prior to that to reiterate for a "system" to actually function as it should, it needs all the components of the "system" as designed. Then if it doesn't work from there you troubleshoot the issue. Fit some new seals and follow up with us. The whole point is for all of us to learn something around here.

As GM used to say: "There are no unnecessary parts."

No offense taken at all, Sir! I got quite a kick out of the simplicity and applicability of the wording!

I’m all about sharing my experiences, good and not so good, so everyone can learn something!
_________________
‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EJZero1
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Colorado Springs
EJZero1 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

NUTSFORBUSES wrote:
To simplify:
A thick U shape seal goes on the Body, Then
A Flapper seal goes in the channel around the window frame and touches the U shape, Then
Another U type seal goes around the glass edge INSIDE the window frame.

NOT having the first TWO seals will upset what you are trying to do here, and can stop the latch from reaching its destination.

The latch is actually trying to squish the rubber seals together holding the window outward to GET A weather seal. You maybe going metal to metal w/o a buffer, Thus using the latch as it was NOT designed. Latches often break when the seals are brittle and hard.
(I just did a dozen of these)


I agree with your “break down” of the applicable seals in play on the pop out windows. As someone here already pointed out, ensuring I order all of these correct seals from one or another of our vendors may not necessarily be an easy task. For example, WW’s web site offering in this area doesn’t seem to match what I think I’m looking for. At any rate, will soon be verifying and ordering the 3 applicable seals per window,
_________________
‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member


Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 555
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
NUTSFORBUSES is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 2:29 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Pop Out Latch Clearance Problem Reply with quote

Buy a gallon of Simple Green, a plastic container big enough to fit the frame/(s), soak it 24 hrs or longer. Your seals will peel right off w/o glass breakage or scraping the channels.
_________________
kaiser kills kids.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Twitter Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Split Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.