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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 971 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 8:12 pm Post subject: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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My Pitman Arm seal leaks. Rather than replacing the seal I would like to fill the box with Cornhead grease and try this. The small filler opening at the top is just that... small. Would it be ok to just remove the adjustment screw and lock nut and introduce the grease there? I understand that this Cornhead grease works very well and will not leak out of the box.
Bill |
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Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9905 Location: idaho
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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I have a turkey baster that works great for filling through the stock fill hole. Just fill the bulb up with the grease and squeeze it in. I use a 50/50 grease & 90w gear oil mix, but the cornhead grease should squeeze through it too. _________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
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velvetgreen Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004 Posts: 2736 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:28 am Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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I have used a big food grade syringe to fill up the steering box so that might be another option |
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Bruce Amacker Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 1786 Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 971 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:11 am Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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Thanks everyone. The other question is can I safely remove the steering box adjustment screw and set nut without parts falling apart inside the box? I have never removed this completely... only backed it in or out for proper adjustment. I have never had a box apart before.
Bill |
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Bruce Amacker Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 1786 Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:36 am Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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Pull the four 13mm head bolts off, remove the cover, let it drain overnight of whatever lube is in there, clean it with brakeclean, put a thin film of any sealer on the edge of the cover, bolt it back on, fill it. There should be copper washers under the 2 lower bolt heads.
On the difficulty scale this is a 2 out of 10, not much harder than changing a spare tire. I did it 3 times lately on 3 different busses to change the grease, all 3 don't leak now. The grease from TSC is in the tractor section, not in the oil/lube section like you'd expect.
If you remove the adj bolt you'll likely upset the box adjustment- not a good thing, plus, if you drain it there you'll only get a small amount of oil out.
If you want to know how to adjust the box, I have a video on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-1h47ILhxg
There's a pic here, too: https://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2888&start=440
The last post, second last picture. The website is having problems so they don't load automatically.
https://www.leakoil.net/forum/download/file.php?id=15693&mode=view
_________________ '66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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A friend of mine noted this conversation was taking place....very much yes on using dedicated "gear grease" (which is different from gear oil). I have been using it for decades now.
A lot of the other classic car and tractor guys have been using dedicated gear greases....better known as "semi-fluid" greases for many decades.
The 411/412 cars came from the factory with "semi-fluid" gear grease instead of 90 weight oil.
As Bruce Amacker noted....the Super S "00" semi-fluid is a good product for this.
Penrite 00 is also excellent https://www.ahspares.co.uk/austin-healey/big-heale...coealw_wcb
Pretty much most NLGI 0 or 00 greases will work well.
Here are some links on discussions about this very subject:
Bay Bus last week:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=786623&start=0
Type 3...very long complete thread about rebuilding. We started talking about Cornhead grease and grease filling starts on page 3 but the serious stuff is on page 7
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=660446&highlight=steering+box+refurbishment
My thread about type 4 gearbox rebuild. This one used 50/50 Superlube NLGI #2 thinned with 140 weight Superlube gear oil
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=765803&highlight=steering+gearbox
One thing about mixing oils and greases. Unless you KNOW that the oil and thickener bases are compatible...like with the Superlube products...I would not do this. It can cause oxidation and separation and corrosion issues long term.
In warm climates I found that you can use straight Superlube NLGI #2 grease in steering gearboxes with no issues. Its consistency ...tck rate...is closer to an NLGI 0. But, with temps below 30*F it gets a little too stiff.
Since those times I have found that Superlube ALSO makes their superb full synthetic, clear teflon based grease in a 0 and a 00 formulation. Use that and you have no issues.
Corn head grease....probably the best. It is an NLGI "0" grease. Do not let that fool you.
It is thixotropic. It is designed to "shear-thin" instantly when squeezed or worked ...like in milliseconds...to a semi-fluid consistency of a 00 grease. It recovers back to "0' state in a minute or two. In this way it flows to where it needs to be but does not back out when pressure drops.
Superb stuff.
Fill your gearbox with as much grease as possible...cover the fill hole and turn the shaft all the way in one direction. If you feel pressure against your finger...turn it the pother way. You should feel slight suction and the grease should pull away from teh hole. Stop and fill some more. Repeat. Keep stuffing it in there until you feel slight pressure no matter what direction.
Uncover the hole and turn the box slightly until a blob of about teh size of a big marble gets pumped out. This is enoug hairspace for expansion. Put the plug back in and you are done.
Really its important to clean the box out and inspect.
The problem with steering gearboxes on cars is that they were meant to be filled for life and they get left alone for decades. The moisture in the airspace in the box breaks down. Because the box never gets hot it never evaporates and gets into 90 weight oil.
The sulfur/sulphides (the nasty smelling part of gear oil) in the oil combine with moisture and break down into sulfuric acid. This starts rusting things.
Many old school steering gearboxes use a single ingot of copper as a sacrificial anode for the sulfuric acid. Or they plate one single part with copper to do the same thing.
If you look in my type 4 steering box rebuild you can see this. The worm nut is copper plated and came out green after nearly 50 years in ancient semi-fluid gear grease (which also has sulfur in it).
Going to a synthetic greatly cuts down on this.
Ray |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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By the way, that reddish brown color on the worm in Bruce's pictures is what copper plating that is there to be sacrifical anode for sulfuric acid looks like.
Ray |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 971 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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Bruce, thanks for the great photos and I will be reviewing the video before I go any further. Ray, I thought you were just on the Type 4 discussions, but you are everywhere!
I already have the Corn head grease so that is what I will be using. I'll have to find the appropriate applicator to squeeze that grease into the fill hole. Looks like I should be able to pack a large amount of grease in while the cover is off to start with.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone,
Bill |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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Pepperbilly wrote: |
Bruce, thanks for the great photos and I will be reviewing the video before I go any further. Ray, I thought you were just on the Type 4 discussions, but you are everywhere!
I already have the Corn head grease so that is what I will be using. I'll have to find the appropriate applicator to squeeze that grease into the fill hole. Looks like I should be able to pack a large amount of grease in while the cover is off to start with.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone,
Bill |
A note about sealing with RTV. Even though in the tube, one part RTV's are mostly moisture curing they can still have platinum or tin additive. Because of this they can get "somewhat" poisoned by sulfur in gear oil causing incomplete curing.
The ideal way to seal something like this steering box....remembering that gear oil contains sulfur.....is to take the half of the box you can remove with the method being talked about here....clean the crap out it with solvent, then detergent. Then dry it well and apply a very thin and uniform film of RTV to it.
Unless you are using a precision method like I show in my steering box link....stipple it on with your finger and then let it dry until it's dry to the touch but soft. Then bolt it on and let it dry overnight before adding oil. Ray |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 971 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
Pepperbilly wrote: |
Bruce, thanks for the great photos and I will be reviewing the video before I go any further. Ray, I thought you were just on the Type 4 discussions, but you are everywhere!
I already have the Corn head grease so that is what I will be using. I'll have to find the appropriate applicator to squeeze that grease into the fill hole. Looks like I should be able to pack a large amount of grease in while the cover is off to start with.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone,
Bill |
A note about sealing with RTV. Even though in the tube, one part RTV's are mostly moisture curing they can still have platinum or tin additive. Because of this they can get "somewhat" poisoned by sulfur in gear oil causing incomplete curing.
The ideal way to seal something like this steering box....remembering that gear oil contains sulfur.....is to take the half of the box you can remove with the method being talked about here....clean the crap out it with solvent, then detergent. Then dry it well and apply a very thin and uniform film of RTV to it.
Unless you are using a precision method like I show in my steering box link....stipple it on with your finger and then let it dry until it's dry to the touch but soft. Then bolt it on and let it dry overnight before adding oil. Ray |
What about using case sealant? The stuff used mating the case halves.
Bill |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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Pepperbilly wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
Pepperbilly wrote: |
Bruce, thanks for the great photos and I will be reviewing the video before I go any further. Ray, I thought you were just on the Type 4 discussions, but you are everywhere!
I already have the Corn head grease so that is what I will be using. I'll have to find the appropriate applicator to squeeze that grease into the fill hole. Looks like I should be able to pack a large amount of grease in while the cover is off to start with.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone,
Bill |
A note about sealing with RTV. Even though in the tube, one part RTV's are mostly moisture curing they can still have platinum or tin additive. Because of this they can get "somewhat" poisoned by sulfur in gear oil causing incomplete curing.
The ideal way to seal something like this steering box....remembering that gear oil contains sulfur.....is to take the half of the box you can remove with the method being talked about here....clean the crap out it with solvent, then detergent. Then dry it well and apply a very thin and uniform film of RTV to it.
Unless you are using a precision method like I show in my steering box link....stipple it on with your finger and then let it dry until it's dry to the touch but soft. Then bolt it on and let it dry overnight before adding oil. Ray |
What about using case sealant? The stuff used mating the case halves.
Bill |
Depends on what that case sealant is!
An almost ideal sealant is either permatex motoseal or Yamabond or similar. This is because they are oil and fuel proof and fan be applied very thin without skills or tools.
Permatex motoseal is 60% solvent. Try hard to get it on thin and evenly as wait until it dries. It will shrink to ~60% thinner. When try it remains tacky and pliable. Bolt it up dry. Ray |
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Bruce Amacker Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 1786 Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3414 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:01 am Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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Good stuff, thanks guys! I need to replace the 35 year old lube in my box. Now I now exactly what to do. Many thx |
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3414 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2023 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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I just finished changing my steering box fluid. Cleaning the insides out was a mess. Fingers, paper towels and a small brush work good. Flushed with WD-40 as brake cleaner doesn’t move the old stuff, just runs off. The steering arm can move to left a little with the cover off, moving the peg out of the way, so you can rotate the column. I filled it back up with a syringe. A little hard to suck this stuff up but not too bad. 250cc per the manual. Did a readjust to the arm and that’s it!
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3414 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:52 am Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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After cleaning out my old box and refilling with this stuff, the steering has never felt this smooth, even and uniform, going from lock to lock. Quite amazing |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 971 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: '67 ZF Steering Box Filling |
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chrisflstf wrote: |
After cleaning out my old box and refilling with this stuff, the steering has never felt this smooth, even and uniform, going from lock to lock. Quite amazing |
Same here. I used Cornhead grease with the same results. I too took the cover off and heated up all the old grease with a heat gun. The old stuff flowed right out. Steering is now very smooth. Pretty happy.
Bill |
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