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Who.Me? 
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Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 1:30 am Post subject: Screw Terminal Ignition Switch Disassembly |
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I've bought a screw-terminal ignition switch to rekey for my truck. It's fairly gunked up, so I'd like to give it an initial soak to clean it before I take it apart.
Do they contain any components that would react badly to being immersed in petrol or similar? It looks like it has a fiber base/rear piece?
And to disassemble - is it just a case of relieving the crimped points at the base/rear of the switch and separating the base from the body? I've found the threads on rekeying a screw terminal ignition switch, but I couldn't see where they explained that bit.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786
Last edited by Who.Me? on Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Braukuche
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Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
I've bought a screw-terminal ignition switch to rekey for my truck. It's fairly gunked up, so I'd like to give it an initial soak to clean it before I take it apart.
Do they contain any components that would react badly to being immersed in petrol or similar? It looks like it has a fiber base/rear piece?
And to disassemble - is it just a case of relieving the crimped points at the base/rear of the switch and separating the base from the body? I've found the threads on rekeying a screw terminal ignition switch, but I couldn't see where they explained that bit. |
I wouldn’t do that.
Use electric contact cleaner, you can get it at auto parts store. Then get graphite lock lube and spray it in.
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Stocknazi
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Joined: June 18, 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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I've successfully dissembled/reassembled an ignition switch. I carefully tapped the crimps enough to get it apart.
You can remove the lock cylinder without fully dissembling the switch by removing the small circlip. Be prepared to cuss ALOT in German b/c it is quite the PITA to get that clip off/on.
I fully dissembled my switch to replace some of the contact parts using a spare beetle switch. The electrical portion was still a little loose when I reassembled b/c I could not get the crimps as tight as they were originally. It worked fine for years though.
If anyone has suggestions for re-staking the crimps neatly I'm all ears.
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Who.Me?
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Joined: July 14, 2014
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Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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Having given it a quick clean with brake cleaner, I'm thinking I've been missold. The switch has on and off positions, but now it's cleaned up, it also pushes in and turns further.
It also has faint writing on it that says '53, but it isn't a barndoor bus switch.
It switch looks a lot like the right hand one in this thread, that is described as being for an Oval beetle.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6979276
My switch. Is this a beetle switch? Will it work in a '56 splitty?...
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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EverettB
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69823
Location: Phoenix Metro
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2023 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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| EverettB wrote: |
The key has an "E" key code.
Is the ignition marked with the same key code?
E is Bus, not Bug
I'm not sure on the 3 connections though, I thought Buses were all 4 but I could be mistaken.
It looks I asked about this here but no definitive replies:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653162 |
Thanks. Yes, it's E coded.
I Googled off the back of your comment and there is some key v model info on WW's website. https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/door_components/door_keys.cfm That confirms your thought that E code is bus, so it looks like this is a bus ignition.
Can't help with the 3 terminal v 4 terminal question, but as above, this one has '53 hand written on it (or it did before I cleaned it). Could it be that old? I thought Barndoor-era buses had a simpler switch in the bakelite panel?
Seeing as it looks like it's a bus switch...
>Can anyone confirm whether this should fit my 56? (i.e. should the screw hole on the tab be in the right place?) If so, I'll re-key it.
I re-keyed the WW repro one that I'm using at the moment, so I'm confident doing that. But...
>Do I need to remove the base to get at the barrel?
Looking at the base of the switch, it doesn't appear to have a C-clip or ring holding the barrel in like later switches do. There only appears to be a brass rivet passing through the base.
From other electrical items I've serviced, I'm guessing that rivet is single-use and part of the barrel assembly, so it won't go back together, if I drill it out. Does that sound correct?
Do I need to uncrimp the base to get the barrel out to re-key it, or is there a less invasive way to release it?
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6612
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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Once you uncrimp it you will need to have a way to crimp it back. I tried uncrimping the beetle ignition switches and the metal just breaks. Do it in a clean area incase springs come flying out.
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EverettB
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
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Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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Need some info from someone who's taken a switch like this apart - the barrel in this one isn't secured at the base with a C-clip like the later style switches.
Rather than a solid shaft projecting through the base, with a groove for a C-clip, this seems to have a hollow brass rivet. I've tweaked the picture above to make it clearer..
I'm unsure if that rivet is part of the barrel, or whether it's part of the electrical contact mechanism though.
Does anyone know?
If the rivet is part of the barrel; I think I'll need to drill it out to release the barrel and replace it with a machine screw. I don't want to do that only find out that it's actually part of the electrical contact mechanism.
The only other option I can think of for removing the barrel is if the collar at the key end comes off, but that seems to be firmly pressed on (and it wouldn't be very secure if you could just unscrew that and remove the barrel).
What do you guys think? Drill out the centre rivet, or will that destroy the mechanism. Or will it come apart anyhow if I completely relieve the crimps holding the base on but leave the rivet in place?
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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BarryL
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Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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When you turn the lock barrel does the brass thing rotate with it?
If it were mine I'd mark three new places that will be the new crimp sites with a sharp ice pick. Then I'd use a tiny Dremel burr to erase the metal where the existing crimps are. Take apart the switch and show what's is inside.
After it's apart use the Dremel burr to create the new crimp points. |
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Who.Me?
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Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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| BarryL wrote: |
When you turn the lock barrel does the brass thing rotate with it?
If it were mine I'd mark three new places that will be the new crimp sites with a sharp ice pick. Then I'd use a tiny Dremel burr to erase the metal where the existing crimps are. Take apart the switch and show what's is inside.
After it's apart use the Dremel burr to create the new crimp points. |
The rivet doesn't rotate with the barrel.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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BarryL
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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When you finally get to the point of removing the lock barrel make sure the key is in or the wafers and springs can fly out.
Send this guy an email or pm with the photo of the key rear and ask him about it.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7058 |
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Who.Me?
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Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:18 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning ignition switch? |
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| BarryL wrote: |
When you finally get to the point of removing the lock barrel make sure the key is in or the wafers and springs can fly out.
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That's going to depend on whether removing the base allows me to release the lock barrel and extract it through the top/front of the case. The key won't fit down throught the 'snout' of the case.
Failing that, I'd have to cut the key down to allow it to fit down through the snout. That wouldn't be a great loss, as I'll be keying it to my truck, but it would be a neat souvenir to keep intact.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Who.Me?
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Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Screw Terminal Ignition Switch Disassembly |
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Right, I'm in. Renamed the thread in case it's helpful to anyone else working on one of these in future.
I don't know whether this is similar in concept to any later switches, but this is a breakdown...
The switch comprises three main parts:-
>The outer case that is thickish aluminium, with the polished bezel. The case is crimped over at three points to engage with slots in the bakelite base.
>A mechanism module that sits at the base of the case and is enclosed in its own, thinnner aluminium case with the bakelite base. The inner case is also crimped to the base at the same points as the outer case. Relieving these crimps should open the mechanism up, but I'm not sure if I'll bother. There is a spring in the centre of the module that the barrel assembly pushes on to.
The outer case doesn't have any locating tabs or similar, so it looks like the mechanism can be rotated and crimped back in a different position.
The thinner mechanism case however looks to have locating tabs either for the case or the components inside, so it might only go back together in the original position. Take care to only drill out the outer case to releive the crimps. Leave enough material from the inner case to allow it to be re-crimped in the original position.
>The ignition barrel that is inside its own, thick pot metal case.
I haven't worked out how to get in to the ignition barrel to rekey it yet.
The base end of the barrel has 'winged' extensions. I suspect the winged piece comes off and the barrel extracts through the top of its own case, but I haven't tried yet. There is some corrosion or gunked-up lube on the base of the barrel assembly that i need to clean up for a better look.
As far as operation goes, the winged part at the end of the barrel engages with a slotted hole in the mechanism barrel that contains a spring. The barrel pushes in to its case for the 'start' function. That makes the winged part stick out further from the end of the barrel case. The winged part then it rests/latches on extensions to the end of the barrel case.
The barrel does NOT project through the bakelite base. The barrel can only be removed by separating the outer case from the mechanism module. Then it slides out through the open base of the case. The barrel is a module of its own and the wafers won't come flying out on their own, so the key can be removed when the barrel is extracted through the base.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Stocknazi
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Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Screw Terminal Ignition Switch Disassembly |
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Sorry for the confusion on the screw vs spade terminal switches. The screw terminal switches are quite a but different.
Following.....
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Who.Me?
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:00 am Post subject: Re: Screw Terminal Ignition Switch Disassembly |
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OK, so the winged part is separate from the barrel and serves the same purpose as the C-clip in later switches, as well as turning the switch in the mechanism module. It prevents the barrel from being removed from its case.
It is held in place in a slot in the end of the barrel by a solid transverse dowel pin. Removing the pin will allow the winged part to be pulled out of the slot, and then I can withdraw the barrel from its case.
I have a pin punch that looks small enough to drive the pin out, but gentle taps aren't budging it and I doubt the barrel is particularly strong, so I don't want to pound on it. The pin is presumably intended to be there permanently.
Is there a right or wrong direction to drive a dowel pin out? And if so, how do I work out which is the right direction?
I'm tempted to just drill it out, but I'm not sure whether I'd find a pin of the right size to replace it.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6612
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Screw Terminal Ignition Switch Disassembly |
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Find one you can destroy so you can see how it is done in case you mess up. Don't mess up the good one until you know.
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Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
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Who.Me?
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Screw Terminal Ignition Switch Disassembly |
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Decided to investigate further. I took a small file and cleaned up the area where the dowel pin goes. It showed that the pin was smaller than I thought.
I took a small drill and created an indentation in the pin then used the shaft of a broken 1.5mm drill to drift the pin out.
It's all apart. Just need to order some wafer/reeds.
From comparing images online, it looks like VW used HU49 reeds until the 2000s, so I'm going to order some of those from Aliexpress to try. The kits come with springs too, which may be useful.
I've wrapped the barrel with some tape to keep the wafers in incase the key slips out. It'll be a few weeks until I rekey it.
And I've found this helpful YouTube video on rekeying locks on a Mk2 Golf. I rekeyed the aftermarket ignition key on my truck a while ago, so I understood the principle, but this also explains how to work out which wafers are needed for each slot using a pair of vernier calipers...
Link
Pics of the barrel parts for reference...
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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