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dantrefethen
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Boise Idaho
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: WWII factory arm band? |
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Good story, but I have never seen a picture of anything like that before in any book or article about the factory. 
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coad 
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7552
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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It does seem to be a security guard armband, but VW? That's a stretch especially since it's labeled DAIMLER-BENZ.
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Werkschutze – Factory Guard Armband
5GC-84d. Approximately 7-1/2-inch wide x 3-7/8-inch high, fine red linen armband, with joined ends, and white chain stitched letter, “W;” (Werkschutze), in the center. The armband is in overall excellent condition; it exhibits extremely light signs of age, as well as few very small and insignificant spots of soil from storage. SCARCE. Unused. Excellent. $55.00 |
http://www.militaryspecialtiesinc.com/web/German/WW2GermanClothInsignia/GER_Cloth_Pg5.htm |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| coad wrote: |
It does seem to be a security guard armband, but VW? That's a stretch especially since it's labeled DAIMLER-BENZ.
| Quote: |
Werkschutze – Factory Guard Armband
5GC-84d. Approximately 7-1/2-inch wide x 3-7/8-inch high, fine red linen armband, with joined ends, and white chain stitched letter, “W;” (Werkschutze), in the center. The armband is in overall excellent condition; it exhibits extremely light signs of age, as well as few very small and insignificant spots of soil from storage. SCARCE. Unused. Excellent. $55.00 |
http://www.militaryspecialtiesinc.com/web/German/WW2GermanClothInsignia
/GER_Cloth_Pg5.htm |
Too much of a stretch for me. I called a friend in England who has collected 3rd Reich material for 40 years and he has never seen any factory VW armband. He believes that the worker's pin was the only identification worn until the military took over. At that point he thinks it would have been identification cards and not armbands except for security and that would have been standard police uniforms. What we really need is a photograph from the time period to be sure.
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Geez, the best you can do is take it at face value that ebay armband is from the Mercedes factory at Mannheim.
Translation:
Mercedes Benz, Company that issues stocks, Mannheim
Air Protection patrol. |
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coad
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7552
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
Geez, the best you can do is take it at face value that ebay armband is from the Mercedes factory at Mannheim.
Translation:
Mercedes Benz, Company that issues stocks, Mannheim
Air Protection patrol. |
Actually, I'm hoping for more. I've had this picture of a logo on the back of a WWII Kubelwagen saved hoping someone can tell me what it means (and no, it has nothing to do with the VW Factory cause the photo of the kubel was taken in the Ukraine). I would love to have someone wander in and explain what that logo meant in WWII.
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Start here Coad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odal_rune
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Here is another possibility......
http://rexcurry.net/bookchapter4a1a2a.html
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coad
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7552
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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I've asked on some scary websites-- the kind where most of the regulars have shaved heads and political views that aren't what you call mainstream, and even those guys didn't have an answer.
Most agree that it looks like an SS Rune, but no one can identify it beyond that. |
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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The story doesn't ring true with me.
Why is there a Daimler Benz stamp on the armband. Has anyone ever seen another armband with a similar stamp on it? I believe the stamp was put on it at sometime as it may have been in Daimler Benz's archive or storage. It may never have been used or it may have been a sample/prototype.
The only connection Daimler Benz had with the VW in that time, was that Daimler was commissioned to build 30 prototypes in 1936. Daimler Benz did not show VW how to setup and run a factory. There was plenty of expertise in the VW/KDF camp to be able to do that.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm thinking that that particular VW symbol is for "Volkswehr", or the People's Army or Guard; IE the home front in Hitler Germany. "Werk" = Factory, "Luft"= Air, "Schutz"= protection or shield.
I'm thinking it might have been an armband for a Volkswehr recruit manning an antiaircraft gun on the roof of the Daimler plant at Mannheim....
IF it's even authentic.
I wish I could make Coad's pic bigger, because under the symbol it says something about unfastening some armour or shield before starting- IF I'm seeing 'Vor Andrehen Schuetzkleppe Offnen'... but I can't quite make it out.
How did a Volkswehr vehicle wind up in the Ukraine? It might have been commandeered by the Wehrmacht or the SS.. Or, it might have been captured and taken there. Or, I may be totally misremembering about that being a Volkswehr symbol, but it's really ringing a bell.
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Last edited by Tram on Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nice guess but the "air protection police" was a blue band with an eagle inside a star.
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53 0val
Samba Professor
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a copy of the second version (post 1936).
http://medals.safeshopper.com/17/638.htm?453
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
| Nice guess but the "air protection police" was a blue band with an eagle inside a star. |
Also, the 'air protection police' was more of a civilian outfit that kept/ restored order during/ after Allied air raids. They would NOT have been a "Schutz" which is a shield, indicating a more active military role. The word for Police is 'Polizei", which doesn't appear on that armband.
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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How do you translate "Lufschutz" then?
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
| How do you translate "Lufschutz" then? |
Look about 5 posts up....  ^^^^
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Last edited by Tram on Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coad
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7552
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Let's assume for a minute that it really is a V and a W. (I'm not convinced of this, but let's go with it for now).
Assuming that W is an abbreviation for Werkschutze let's here some theories about what the V might be-- Department? Volunteer? Vergeltungswaffe?
Come on German Speakers, speculate . . . |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| coad wrote: |
Let's assume for a minute that it really is a V and a W. (I'm not convinced of this, but let's go with it for now).
Assuming that W is an abbreviation for Werkschutze let's here some theories about what the V might be-- Department? Volunteer? Vergeltungswaffe?
Come on German Speakers, speculate . . . |
Look about 7 posts up^^^^
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Last edited by Tram on Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| 53 0val wrote: |
| How do you translate "Lufschutz" then? |
Look about 5 posts up.... ^^^^ |
Ok....  I sometimes get ahead of the post....sorry.
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53 0val
Samba Professor
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Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Actually that would be an RLB (Reich Lufschutz Bund) and that is this armband.
http://www.epier.com/biddingform.asp?1409556
Still doesn't have a VW in it.
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