TheSamba.com :: View topic - Type 4 cars spotted for sale/parts- local, CL, etc...

Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:10 am

I thought it might be good for everyone to have a dedicated thread for craigslist car postings to alert others and to keep the remaining 411-412 from going to the crusher.

There is a 412 estate in the Chattanooga area:

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/1965260662.html

Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:33 am

OK, I went ahead and made this a sticky since there isn't likely to be too much fighting over who spotted what first, dibs, or other such things- just a way to call attention to cars/items of interest you've found i.e. stuff in danger of getting crushed like the car from the above post, or overlooked. Try to keep it reasonable. Please list any of your own ads in the classifieds.

Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:36 pm

Here is one in the Detroit area

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/1948480947.html

The motor is running ok 100,000+ miles but it needs the whole brake system replaced..all of the glass is intact. Do not know what he wants for it.

Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:02 pm

Here is another awsome deal in the New York state area:

http://rochester.craigslist.org/cto/1990535591.html

For $3200 you get two.

Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:28 pm

I don't know where he gets the average retail at $4300 :lol: . Yes...if its perfect! Ray

Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:48 am

I've been a lover of 412s for a while I am thinking of selling my 59 combi and getting one. Safer for the kids. Relatively.

Here's one in Colorado. I love that it hads under 100k miles! Is that actory AC? Those are some crazy looking AC hoses i nthe engine compartment.

http://westslope.craigslist.org/cto/1992501110.html

Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:18 am

I think all A/C was dealer installed. Anyway, the PNW should be a good place to find Type 4's, or at least it was, but that car doesn't look bad. Freshen up all the soft stuff that deteriorates- hoses, seals, bushings, seat covers, etc... and you may be good to go for a while. As I understand from Ray, the Type 4 certainly had some designed-in safety features many earlier VW's and other cars of the era may not have, including crumple zones- not to mention better handling, brakes, etc...

Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:55 am

Yes, those are AC hoses, but they are not original. The original AC hoses were run through a pair of holes they drill in the firewall just to the upper left of the engine tin backing plate....thats if you had the larger Borg wraner compressor where the fittings poked up through holes in the engine tin and into the engine compartment.
Typically if you had the smaller York compressor, the hoses were not visible since they just run ander the tin outside the engine compartment.

The reason you see those hoses that way...is because the yprobably had to replace the compressor at one point. They put in the larger compressor and drilled the holes in the tin...very easy....but did not drill the holes in the firewall.

One thing to bear in mind.....although that car is fairly complete, even with relatively low miles, it will require about $1200 to be a safe daily driver. By safe...I mainly mean...not handling poorly and breaking suspension parts.
That $1200 would buy complete new brakes and suspension. Ray

Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:46 am

You are scaring off All the buyers Here telling them $1200 "to make it safe"! I spent $15 on 1 new front brake hose to make my 67 square SAFE. Drive it until it breaks/squeals/grinds/knocks etc then fix it. Don't Start Out replacing everything! :roll:

Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:06 pm

Yeah, really you just want to make sure that the car will stop and steer and that nothing is in immiment danger of catastrophically failing causing loss of control of the vehicle to be safe.
For optimal use, I think the dollar amount will vary by person and what their goals, resources, and standards are. I mean, what exactly is a daily driver? My communte is 60+ miles per day. Since I got my truck earlier this year, I have put approx. 2,000 miles per month on it! A car needs to be in good shape to work reliably and safely through all the conditions I have been through in that time period. Ray does has very high standards. I think a front end suspension and steering rejuventation could be done to a high standard for several hundred dollars total with quite a bit of DIY, connections, and smart shopping.

Take the easy route say, on a front end rebuild right now:

New early '85-'88 Nissan Maxima rear strut cartridges for the front: $60-125
Super Beetle Bronze Idler Arm Bushing: $30-40
Parts to upgrade to '74 or late Super upper strut spec:~ <$125
NOS or rebuilt center link: `$50-60 or less for rebuild using bronze stock for bushings
NOS or reinforced mounting plate new ball joints: ~$50-150
Modified rabbit Poly A-arm bushings: $50
fabricate new radius arm donuts and ring: ~$50? (materials)

That gives you $575 on the high side and should be better than stock!

FWIW, when I got my wagon, it think it had around 100K on it, and many of the parts on the front end looked like they were in perfect shape, but it still had shimmies at certain speeds.

So, now that I have added it all up, I guess Ray is right. Throw in some brake lines, rebuild/replace the calipers/wheel cylinders/master cylinder (these go bad especially it seems, because of their location), rear bushings/shocks, etc... you could be into 4 figures. When you think about it, though, it really is worth it if you're going to keep the car because my impression is that these cars are really built to last mechanically and should provide many years of enjoyment and service.

Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:46 am

Mike Fisher wrote: You are scaring off All the buyers Here telling them $1200 "to make it safe"! I spent $15 on 1 new front brake hose to make my 67 square SAFE. Drive it until it breaks/squeals/grinds/knocks etc then fix it. Don't Start Out replacing everything! :roll:

A squareback 411 or 412? Doubtful. :roll:

The type 3 and type 4 are pretty much NOT related at all. There are less than 50 parts that fit both. The chassis's and construction method are totally unrelated. There is not one single suspension component from a type 3 except one single tie-rod end that will fit a type 4.

Not trying to be mean spirited or rude....but I'm betting that at close to a million miles on strictly type 4 vehicles, and having owned 7 of them.....and working on well over 200 of them for about 30 years...that I probably have more type 4 expereience than virtually anyone on these forums.....even those who worked at dealers....because dealers did not do transmission rebuilding or serious injection tuning.

The mantra..."get in and drive it till it squeeks and then fix it"....is the absolute worst thing you can possibly do to a 411 or 412.....and will 100% guarantee that you will fix everytyhing at least twice.....from parts that do not exist.

Type 3's are dirt simple to find parts for. Type 4's are not.

Here is the problem: The type 4 front suspension has the longest struts and control arms you will find on almost any vehicle ever built. As such they generate more leverage on components than any other ACVW ever built.
There were several material and design flaws within teh front suspension that do not make this any better
(a) the internal bushing material on the center link dies from AGE alone...even with "0" miles on it. Its defective. It uses 6/6 nylon and it absorbs water. It turns to powder in about 5-7 years. If you do not replace or rebuild that parts....it adds leverage and misalignment to the idler arm bushing and puts torque on the steering gear. In short...it wears out everything it is attached to. There is no way to inspect and find out if yours is shot...other than to remove it. To remove it...generally destroys it.

(b) Theidler arm bonded rubber bushing design was defective. It leads to wear on the centerlink, strut busings and steering box. VW changed the design to solid bronze in 1978....when the same part # started trashing the superbeetle front suspension as well. One of the major causes of "the shimmy" sydrome.

(c) The bonded rubber "middle" years strut bushings 1971 -1972 411...were defective. They tear internally on the bottom side...mostly due to extreme rebound from the poorly valved original strut cartridges. This is not visible except with car off the ground, the struts fully extended, the wheels removed....a bright inspection light...and knowing exactly where to look. This causes wear of both the centering rings on radius arms, ball joints...and control arm bushings.

(d) while not defective....the control arm bushings were too weak...soft in rubber....to work with the extremely long control arms. The leverage tears them and causes forward sliding of the control arm tubes...by about 30-50K miles....on ALL 411 and 412's.....100% all of them. This causes misalignment of the radius arms in their sockets. This wears out the centering rings....that causes worse control arm wear...and misalignment forward of the ball joints. In the early ball joint models...this causes wear and hammering to the swaged lip under the boot...and generally cuts the boot.

To drive on a regular basis without first getting a 411/412 to a sompetant level...will be an unending littany of poor handling and parts failures...... Wearing out parts you cannot buy.

Those of you who think I am scaring people....do not know what you are talking about.

All of this is easily fixable. It can be done by yourself in less than a day. Two at most.
....but ball joints, control arm bushings, centering rings, center links and proper strut cartridges.....do not exist. We have options for all of this...cross matches..proper fixes. But to drive them before fixing them is stupid.

The rear end is less problematic.....but just bear in mind....the rear trailing arm bushing was a unique "sprung/tension" design that shresd itself quickly. The misalignment in camber it causes...thrashes the wheel bearings....which are now...no longer made.

Do this right or suffer. $1200 starting cost for a comfortable daily driver that is safe and a joy to drive.....is accurate.

Front wheel bearings/seals: (good ones...not chinese Crap) $50
Rotors (if you need them): Good ones...$120 a pair
Caliper rebuild kits (just do it): $15
Brake fluid: (real brake fluid...dot 4 ATE) $13
Brake hoses (just do it they are 30 years old) : $35 for all four total
New caliper Hardware: $8
Pads/shoes (really good ones): $60 all
Drums (try to use your old ones if they are stock): $60 bucks for a pair
Wheel cylinders: $36 for the pair
Rear brake hardware: $8 all
Parking brake cables (always at this age) : $75 for the pair
Master cylinder: $26 to $65...average about $50...its gotten better.

Brakes total with your labor: $530 for COMPLETE better than factory brakes....takes about 4 hours total to install without about 6 hours of prep.

Front end/rear end suspension:
Struts: Audi 4000s option:
$120 for adpator stubs
Cartridges: $78 pr. Gr-2
Centering rings: $25 if you make your own and about $8o to have a handful machined
Radius arm donuts: You can make them for $30 or have them milled for about $75....uusally you can get away with your old ones.
Control arm bushings: $100 to get milled from delrin rod Have teh rears done at the same time
Rear arm bushings $50
Idler bushing (bronze): $50
Tie rod ends: About $100 for all
Center link: $125 for NOS or $50 for a better than stock rebuild
Ball joints: $80- a pair NOS
Strut bushings: (get the later ones and modify): $80-100 for both.
Rear shocks: KYB gas-a-justs: $85 for the pair
Rear bearings (get them while you can find them):$60 all 4 Races and 4 bearings

Suspension total: Going the route where you rebuild your own cnterlink and make your own radius bushings but have the front an reardelrin bushings machined
$818

So for a totally functioning, wear free, not destroying itself brake and suspension system: $1348.

Just do it. Ray

Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:28 pm

There are different opinions on reliability for different needs. Some cars get tinkered with and only get driven on sunny days. Some cars are daily transport and need to get you there. I know in my earlier days I would be fine driving anyhthng as long as it got from A to B 90% of the time. Now I've got standards to live up to so my wife will actually ride in it and opefully drive it.

Ray's information is exactly what all prospective Type 4 buyers need to know. If I am going to add a 412 to my fleet it will need to be as reliable and safe as possible before I put my kids in it. It is good to know what I am getting into and plan the budget to do it right. Dollars per mile a well kept 412 still looks like an economical choice for a daily driver. And getting the suspension set up right with modified Audi struts sounds like fun.

Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:59 pm

Back OT, for "one stop shopping" on CL, my favorite craiglook search is: (vw OR volkswagen OR volkswagon) (412 OR 411)

http://craiglook.com/all.html?q=%28vw+OR+volkswagen+OR+volkswagon%29+%28412+OR+411%29

Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:13 pm

Craiglook was the best compilation of all of CL but it looks like it just got shut down by Craigslist itself. Bummer. It's still pulling ads off of thesamba and other random classifieds sites though. Maybe Craiglook and Craigslist will find a way to play nice together and let have a universal search back someday.

Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:14 am

Here is a deal in St Louis:

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/1992870649.html

Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:54 am

right 450 for all three

you could sell the ugs super cheap and still make out like a bandit on the T4

Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:20 am

At the Pick N Pull in Rocklin, California there is 1971 type IV wagon in the lot. Most parts are still there when I there saturday.
Windshield, wheels and tires gone, engine and transmission, exhaust system, front supension still intact.

Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:57 pm

look for the distributor and check the vacuum canister on it

also how does the hood look?
next time your there check how much they want for it

thanxx

Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:40 pm

Maybe the PiknPull would ship you the distributor/hood to SinCity on Greyhound if you Called them?

Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:51 pm

wanna see type 4 sale? check www.mobile.de

go to "detailsuche"
choose VW by "marke"
type 41 bij "modellvariante"
click on "treffer anzeige"

and you see a few type 4 for sale... (411 and 412, that's why you type only 41)

(it is a german site, but hey, looking at them is also fun :D )