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Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:59 pm

Isn't it true that cool oil temps do not necessarily mean cool head temps??

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:07 am

Barry32 wrote: the engine "seems" to run very hot, and I lose engine idle, in which my oil light starts flickering, when I'm coming to an idle (rolling to a stop) and/or sitting at a light. I touch the gas, to bring the RPMs back up, and the light goes out, let the gas go and the light returns.

you are rightfully worried about the engine o.p. light, but it is indeed designed to work at the factory specified idle speed of the engine... if your motor is idling slower than that, there is no basis for a problem.

make sure the idle speed is what it's supposed to be, then watch for a problem... remember also that the cooling fan moves more air at a faster rpm, just make sure the fan belt tension measures out to the factory spec.

Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:20 pm

brookester wrote: Isn't it true that cool oil temps do not necessarily mean cool head temps??

Yes, if you use a power pulley your CHT will be hot, and your oil could be at 210.

My engine runs 180 - 230 sump oil temps depending on OAT, the CHT runs between 225 to 325 depending on load.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:13 am

danimal wrote: Barry32 wrote: the engine "seems" to run very hot, and I lose engine idle, in which my oil light starts flickering, when I'm coming to an idle (rolling to a stop) and/or sitting at a light. I touch the gas, to bring the RPMs back up, and the light goes out, let the gas go and the light returns.

you are rightfully worried about the engine o.p. light, but it is indeed designed to work at the factory specified idle speed of the engine... if your motor is idling slower than that, there is no basis for a problem.

make sure the idle speed is what it's supposed to be, then watch for a problem... remember also that the cooling fan moves more air at a faster rpm, just make sure the fan belt tension measures out to the factory spec.

Thanks, Dan. My only concern with this, is that, the "problem" with the oil light, only appears after running the car around for awhile. (Awhile being a couple of hours or so...) If I just drive around town, no freeway, just here and there, no "problem" arises. However, if I take the car down the 10, then drive it around some town, invariably I'll start getting the light issue again.

Then, the "problem" seems to correct itself the very next day, with the car starting up perfectly, and no issues, unless I drive it a ton all at once, again...

The "other" issue I didn't bring up, was when I drive the car around a lot, and it gets hot, I start having trouble restarting the car, after stopping. Is this just because the engine is so hot, that it and the starter just need a break, per se, or something else more worrisome? I can "eventually" get the car started, but it acts as though it is starving for gas, though again, the next day, it is as though I never had a problem...

:?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:52 pm

my car does the same thing......it is because it is too hot. just let it cool and it should start. btw the temps on my car got very hot today and it was pretty cool out. they got to about 230 ish. i cant keep this thing cool

Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:08 pm

Barry32, and others.... there is a very easy and simple tool to use to check your oil while driving... The Gene Berg Dipstick... for someone who lives in Ontario... you could just run over to pick one up.. I think $17. When the light flickers, than you will know that you are hot. Check the Gene Berg website for info on the dipstick.

As was said earlier those of us in the Sun (AZ) have other problems with overheating, my '62 Beetle with a 1641 runs great for about 20 min, than I have heating issues. The most recent thing that I changed about my car is the gas. I live to use 87 octane, because here it's $2.39. I changed to 89 and my issues dissolved. If I really get on the car... go 75+ than my problems come back. I am not saying that the gas is the root of all problems, that's beer... ask my dad.... the higher octane will help. If the 89 is not working, try the 91. The problem won't dissapear with using the gas with just one tank full, try two or three tanks. My problems will dissapear this winter by having head work, crank, and pistons. This may help you out too. From my research, heads with too big intake and too small out are a large problem.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:02 pm

I had posted my problem before with my new 1776 cc engine in my 1963 bus. It gets hot here in northern California and my engine runs pretty hot; hot enough where I can not hold onto the dipstick. It has a 009 distributor (30 degrees advance), 110 cam, doghouse cooler, 041 heads, Compufire ignition, stock carburetor, and super cooling tins. I installed a VDO temperature gauge with the sending unit in the sump plate.
Driving it on a 100 degree day at 50 mph and it doesn't take long for the gauge to get up to 240+ degrees. The engine still sounds good and the oil light doesn't come on. I had been looking for a meat thermometer so I could check the oil's temperature and get an idea if the gauge is off. I could not find one long enough and skinny enough.
I would like to remove the super cooling tins but that would be a pain in the butt. Would going to a slightly smaller alternator pully help much?

Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:43 am

BUY GAUGES!!!!

I would not think of driving an aircooled car without them.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:03 am

Gas is gas is gas is gas. I used to work at Standard Oil of California's (now Chevron/Texaco) Richmond refinery at their poly plant. There used to be semi's from other oil companies at Standard filling their tanks up with gasoline (no additives) when they ran short. Later, they would put their own additives into the gasoline, including ones to give it a certain octane rating; Standard's semis did the same thing at other companies refineries.
Oil company commercials, years ago, duped people into thinking that higher octane gasoline has more power (energy) per gallon than lower octane gasoline. The opposite is actually true. Eighty-seven, eighty-nine, and ninety-one octane all have exactly the same gas--the higher octane gas has minute amounts of additives squirted into it to make the gas burn milli-seconds more slowly, to avoid early detonation or "knocking" when the engine is under a heavy load. Eighty-seven octane gasoline has slightly more chemical energy per gallon than the higher octane rated gasolines because it has slightly less additives and, thus, slightly more gasoline in a gallon of fuel. That is why, years ago, Mobil Corp. was forced by an agency of the federal government to stop airing their commercials where it was falsely claimed that their high octane gasoline had more power (energy) and was better for your car's engine than lower octane fuel.
Also, Germany's rating system for gasoline was different than the standard used in this country. Eight-seven octane rated gasoline in this country was equal to about a ninety rating in Germany.
My bus has a bigger bore engine in it now, so instead of using 89 octane gasoline, I've been mixing 89 and 91 octane gasoline, but it has run well on 89 octane gasoline, so I am not following my own advice. A woman I know has been running her 1967 VW bus for years with 87 octane gas with no knocking sounds and an engine with plenty of power; She is, also, a "lead foot."
Unless you want to help out the oil companies by dumping your money down their "rat hole," your car's engine only needs the lowest octane rated gasoline that keeps the pistons from knocking under normal conditions.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:10 am

I've run all the types of gas in my 1904 and didnt see any change in performance or engine temperature. So now I only run the cheap stuff. Never heard any knocking or pinging and have always had plenty of power.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:02 pm

with every vw i've owned, you can see that the oil temp can be proportional to how fast the car is going... that's because the doghouse shroud system tends to have a sweet spot of internal airflow vs. engine rpm.

the upper limits of the effective range is somewhere around 3200-3300(?) rpm, depending heavily on the ambient air temps... if you are turning, say, 3500 rpm cruising the freeway, and the berg dipstick light starts flashing, it'll stop flashing right after you back down on the rpm.

so putting a thermometer in the dipstick tube won't represent the actual running temp of the motor, although i guess it would have value as a comparative reading on an idling motor... i wouldn't waste my money on it, tho.

i have driven type 1 motors for well over 200k miles in all kinds of hell conditions, never had a problem starting a hot motor, that was actually the fault of the motor... if it's turning over slowly, the starter could be defective, or you may need to add that relay to the starter circuit.

get the idle speed set where it's supposed to be, then re-evaluate the problem... a dipstick that is too hot to hold is not what you want to see.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:32 pm

Knocking is what it's all about. Unless your car is doing something like towing a trailer up a steep grade (then there may be knocking), buy the lowest grade of gasoline where the pistons don't make a knocking sound. If for some odd reason you want to give more of your money to oil companies, then buy a higher grade of gasoline than your car needs.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:42 pm

Barry32 wrote: Wow, I'm glad I used the "search" function, or I would have started a whole new thread in the Super Forum...

I've been in Southern California, for about a month, just moved down here from Washington State. (Where it is a hell of a lot cooler!) 73 Super, stock DP 1600, stock German muffler w/ an Empi "Zoom Tube" (this last is really nothing more than cosmetic...)

My problem: After running around the 10 for awhile, from Ontario to West Covina to MontClair and back to Ontario, the engine "seems" to run very hot, and I lose engine idle, in which my oil light starts flickering, when I'm coming to an idle (rolling to a stop) and/or sitting at a light. I touch the gas, to bring the RPMs back up, and the light goes out, let the gas go and the light returns... (My RPMs are lower, after driving all of this, as compared to when I first started out for the day.)

I do not have a way of telling what my oil temp is, given that I have not yet put a guage in, nor do I have the tools to measure it on my own. So, if it is heat, and I can't see why it wouldn't given that the "problem" really only started acting up in the past week to week and a half, when the temps here in Ontario started hitting 100*+, what should I be looking for? Or, is this something else...? I have thought about turning up my idle, but thought better of it, as it runs fine, except after doing quite a bit of driving... (I drove around Ontario, today, and did not have a problem at all, of course I was only out for about 30 minutes, as compared to the 2-3 hours that seem to show a problem.)Do I need an engine cooler, maybe raise my bonnet to allow more air in...?

Any help would be great!

Might be the elevation? I think many parts of CA is at sea level or a little above. I'm like 13ft above sea level eheh. I have this type of problem too when I'm getting too much air and not enough gas. That might explain why you have to gas it to keep the engine alive. This happens to my Ghia too. Once I start up, I have to keep feeding it gas to keep it alive. If I let it drop a little, the oil light would come on. Then I would have to gas it a little then the light goes out.

Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:51 am

[quote="Shep"]I installed a temp sender in the drain plate on my baja. Engine is type 1, 1600 single port, with old style cooler, not doghouse. Sender and guage are both VDO. Problem is that guage never goes over 120, and I know this can't be right.

Can anyone offer advice?

Thanks,

i had the same problem.i got a1641 webb 2 bbl mofoco stock valve heads exhaust extractor header,and a deep sump 1.5 qt. put the sender in the drain plate.got to 140 once.now mine is in a baja and i know it'll run a bit cooler with all the extra fresh air,but i belive its a bit on the cool side. right or rong i moved my stock cooler out of the air streem(out of the fan shroud) to see if it would come up some. it did,to 250 at hwy speed,and around 3000rpm. felt it was to hot,add a blower(bilge blower from a boat.)now holds at 215-225 at 100 deg air and 90+humidity.i still would like to know if any one can answer why it runs that cool with cooler in shroud.never ran in to it before.been around vw's for 20 yrs.

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:08 am

for those of you not using stock size engines or carbs for that matter, remember the air flow in the engine compartment is being shared by both the fan and the carbs! if you are running an engine (air pump) that requires significantly more air to run, you might be starving your fan to a point. also, i have dealt with several type 1s that were running hot, only to find rags, paperbags or the firewall tar board being sucked into the fan itself...

i use to think 220F for oil was hot until i started corresponding with a gentleman that drives his late bus in the sahara desert regularly... he has 300k kilometers on the bus, is on the second motor and his oil regularly sees 280F!!! :shock: he told me he changes the oil at a more frequent interval because of this, but his engines are lasting despite the devastating heat.

another buddy of mine made his engine (air pump) more effecient recently by getting a 1.5" exhaust put on his mild 2007 after running a 1 3/8 because he wanted heat on his type 3. this dropped his CHT by almost 30F. if you are running bigger valves and a restrictive exhaust, you could be causing your heads to retain more heat.