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swanlakers Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:20 pm

Help me out here. I thought that the round heater knobs under the dash were 56 only, and the "wraparound" front bulkhead mats were 57,58,59.
Here is a pic of an original 57? with both. Can anyone tell when the round knobs end, and when the full rubber treatment started? Also when did the door panels go from corduroy and vinal to all vinal with the upsweep detail? This enquiring mind of a 56 owner wants to know.


lars' 57(?) Black Coupe

retrowagen Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:09 pm

swanlakers wrote: Help me out here. I thought that the round heater knobs under the dash were 56 only, and the "wraparound" front bulkhead mats were 57,58,59.
Here is a pic of an original 57? with both. Can anyone tell when the round knobs end, and when the full rubber treatment started? Also when did the door panels go from corduroy and vinal to all vinal with the upsweep detail? This enquiring mind of a 56 owner wants to know.


lars' 57(?) Black Coupe

Yes, that's the Neuffer's (Lars' wife claims the car's actually hers, not Lars'!) Black Coupe. It's an AMAG (Swiss-built) "Montage Suisse", one of the earliest out there, in fact. And very VERY nice and original; I've seen it closely. I don't know its chassis number or build date, but I can comment on the questions posed by swanlakers:

Door panel change to vinyl + corduroy (previously all vinyl): January 1956 production

All-rubber firewall cladding introduced (was carpet+rubber): April/May 1956 production, chassis 1154228, Karmann body #3761

Ventilation controls become levers (were knobs): February 1957 production, Karmann body #14061

Door panels full vinyl (multi-texture with "upswept" color inserts) (previously vinyl + corduroy): September 16, 1957 production, chassis 1649252, Karmann body #22922

You should all also take note of the type of gas pedal, the correct shift and dash knobs, the beading at the door jamb, and the location of the heater vents in the rocker corners. On cars made before chassis 1128610/body#3001, they were located exactly 270mm closer to the centerline of the car.

There were numerous details changed during production from July 1955 through the big batch of changes on September 16, 1957 (the so-called "1958" changes), at seemingly random times. This is evidence why I don't consider any sort of "Model Year," but I won't discuss that topic any further on this forum :evil: ... you can read about it when my book comes out. :)

The rubber firewall cladding introduced with chassis 1154228 was ultimately available in three distinct colors: grey, green, and beige. The Black car above shows the grey variant, as does Broad's Cardinal Red late '57 pictured elsewhere. My Brilliant Red had the beige color, which in all honesty looked more to my eye like olive green.

The Neuffer's car (whether it's a later '56 or early '57) is a really nice car. He caravanned with my pal Lutz and I back from Bad Camberg in '03. We were in the Aerosilber; Lars in the Black Coupe; another friend, Rainer, in the lovely '63:

swanlakers Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm

Thank You retrowagen!

RockStock Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:39 am

all excellent stuff; thanks Stato Dave

retrowagen wrote: All-rubber firewall cladding introduced (was carpet+rubber): April/May 1956 production, chassis 1154228, Karmann body #3761
& can you tell us when it finished? at some point in the '1960 model year'?
ie some 60s came with full cabin rubber matting?
i know the 'upsweep' door panels continued into 1960
as did the mushroom dashknobs/window-winder handles

retrowagen wrote: you can read about it when my book comes out
can i have an autographed copy??

retrowagen wrote: The Neuffer's car (whether it's a later '56 or early '57) is a really nice car. He caravanned with my pal Lutz and I back from Bad Camberg in '03. We were in the Aerosilber; Lars in the Black Coupe; another friend, Rainer, in the lovely '63
shame to have missed you at BC
are you booked in yet for BC07?????
(maybe you could hand deliver the book :D )

udo dreisoerner Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:09 am

here 2 pics from an partlist from 1958. i hope we speak over the same parts now :-))


udo

udo dreisoerner Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:23 am

in 2003 there was an karmann ghia meeting in HANKENSBÜTTEL ( germany)

i have had the great luck to be the passenger at the meeting excursion in lars's swiss made amag lowlight ghia. it is the greatest lowlight i have ever seen. i have an video clip and if someone want that clip i sent it with an email
udo.

my email adress is [email protected]


RockStock Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:27 pm

Jonas Burman2 wrote: I might have what you are looking for. Itīs in pieces but itīs all there.
Have had plans to make a repop myself but ...you know....time!!?
I planned to make an "open" mold and make it from there. Well that is what I figured out laying there awake at nights trying to solve the lowlight bulkhead problem.
I wonder how they were made in the firts place. They definitly seem much more fragile than the floormats
What is your plan?
Colors?... They came in different colors.

jonas, good lad, hope you & doug can get together on this one....

they get super fragile

v2 of the mat colours list:
'Grey' mats: Toucan Black Coupe, Cognac Coupe, Cardinal Red Coupe, Dolphin Blue Coupe
'Beige' mats: Brilliant Red Coupe, Graphite Silver Cab, Bernina Cab
'Green' mats: Aero Silver Coupe, Bambus Coupe

the Beige mats do look really olivey
the Grey is quite a light grey

udo - ref the diagram - we're looking at part 1, and hopefully part 4 & 5
part 1: 141 863 021 - 'Trimming - Front panel (rubber) from body No. 3761'
part 4: 141 863 071 A - 'Mat - Side member, left (rubber)'
part 5: 141 863 072 A - 'Mat - Side member, right (rubber)'

parts 4 & 5 are so simple its unbelievable
made from a flat piece of rubber mat, with the bubble texture (like the tunnel mat) all over, no special edges

141 863 021 is the bad boy tho' - who can get one to dougie/get repros made?

(doug - part 6 - the 'Fixing Strip' is your Apost trim clamping strip)

got some cool detailed pics of the UK Bernina Cab's og interior (currently out of the car) today - mats/door panels/seats/carpet/hood bag (never even been on the car!!! as new! still heavily creased from being folded!)/etc etc
will give a good idea of what a 'correct' Bernina interior looks like
pics to go on lowlight.uk soon!

Jonas Burman2 Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:43 am

141 863 021 is the bad boy tho' - who can get one to dougie/get repros made?

Thanks!.

Not to talk about the size of what that mold is going to be...nothing you put
under your bed :lol:
Like I said...I have had my plans doing an "open mold" in fiberglass.
I am sure that would work.
But if someone more "proffessional" in this matter is willing to try I am glad to help...Lets try to solve this mystery together once and for all!!! :D :D

RockStock Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:20 am

i have heard about a guy in France who has attempted to make one
i believe he made it in 3 sections
left, middle, right

guess this would make it easier (you might get all 3 moulds under your bed then jonas) but as ever it would be top to get a spot on accurate reproduction

Broadacus Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:37 am

[quote] This is evidence why I don't consider any sort of "Model Year," but I won't discuss that topic any further on this forum :evil: ... you can read about it when my book comes out. :)


I cannot wait from a book to explain the early production of the Lowlight Karmann Ghia. Both Richard Troy and Dave Ruby have enough information stored away to produce a fantastic book, but when are the Lowlight owners of this world going to see it???

P.S. If you see my rubber mats up close, they look more green than grey. I have taken pictures of Lars car at Bad Camburg, my rubber mats look a differnt colour.
Lars also owns a very nice Cognac lowlight ( at the 50th meeting in Germany, last summer) the interior is the same as mine.

Buggeroff Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:30 am

RockStock wrote: Jonas Burman2 wrote: I might have what you are looking for. Itīs in pieces but itīs all there.
Have had plans to make a repop myself but ...you know....time!!?
I planned to make an "open" mold and make it from there. Well that is what I figured out laying there awake at nights trying to solve the lowlight bulkhead problem.
I wonder how they were made in the firts place. They definitly seem much more fragile than the floormats
What is your plan?
Colors?... They came in different colors.

jonas, good lad, hope you & doug can get together on this one....

they get super fragile

v2 of the mat colours list:
'Grey' mats: Toucan Black Coupe, Cognac Coupe, Cardinal Red Coupe, Dolphin Blue Coupe
'Beige' mats: Brilliant Red Coupe, Graphite Silver Cab, Bernina Cab
'Green' mats: Aero Silver Coupe, Bambus Coupe

the Beige mats do look really olivey
the Grey is quite a light grey

udo - ref the diagram - we're looking at part 1, and hopefully part 4 & 5
part 1: 141 863 021 - 'Trimming - Front panel (rubber) from body No. 3761'
part 4: 141 863 071 A - 'Mat - Side member, left (rubber)'
part 5: 141 863 072 A - 'Mat - Side member, right (rubber)'

parts 4 & 5 are so simple its unbelievable
made from a flat piece of rubber mat, with the bubble texture (like the tunnel mat) all over, no special edges

141 863 021 is the bad boy tho' - who can get one to dougie/get repros made?

(doug - part 6 - the 'Fixing Strip' is your Apost trim clamping strip)

got some cool detailed pics of the UK Bernina Cab's og interior (currently out of the car) today - mats/door panels/seats/carpet/hood bag (never even been on the car!!! as new! still heavily creased from being folded!)/etc etc
will give a good idea of what a 'correct' Bernina interior looks like
pics to go on lowlight.uk soon!


Trout Blue, Gazzelle Beige,Deep Brown,Deep Green and Black, all 56-57 colours, any clue as to the mat colour combo? I have only the upholstery colours listed for these model year cars, not sure if the mats would follow suit.
Chris.

Broadacus Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:38 am

crtclff wrote:

Trout Blue, Gazzelle Beige,Deep Brown,Deep Green and Black, all 56-57 colours, any clue as to the mat colour combo? I have only the upholstery colours listed for these model year cars, not sure if the mats would follow suit.
Chris.

Deep Brown and Green were roof colors, I have never worked out why Karmann / Volkswagen list them in the Karmann Ghia parts Manual.

Anyone know the answer :?:

Keenan57 Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:28 am

Quote:
v2 of the mat colours list:

'Grey' mats: Toucan Black Coupe, Cognac Coupe, Cardinal Red Coupe, Dolphin Blue Coupe
'Beige' mats: Brilliant Red Coupe, Graphite Silver Cab, Bernina Cab
'Green' mats: Aero Silver Coupe, Bambus Coupe


Don't forget us humble Antelope Brown owners. My July '57 coupe has its original rubbers and they are a deepish brown in colour.:D

Douglas Denlinger Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:10 am

Jonas

The only plan I have is to turn the mat over to my friend/customer who has the connections and let him have a go at it. I'm just the slave labor trying to get this car as close to OG as possible for a restoration.

Colors will be determined only when the mat becomes a reality.

If your interested in donating or selling the mat to the cause then pmail me we can work out the details, I'm sure we can make it worth your time and effort via money or the repoped mat, if it happens.

I just want to make it clear, I'm not promising that this will happen, I do not know what my friends connections are capable of producing. I however, had reproduced interiors for 55-64 deluxe buses that were well received and since sold out of most of the material. So, I have experience with reproductions, been restoring buses since 1986 and all around good guy :D. So I'm not going any where.

Thanks, I look forward to another challenge!

Douglas

Jonas Burman2 Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:49 pm

Hello Douglas.

Sounds great!..Ill send you a PM :wink:

RockStock Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:32 pm

Bulkhead Mat (‘Beige’)
click to enlarge



mat has been converted for RHD, hence pic 2nd left shows dip switch & st column holes crudely filled
pic far right shows new st column hole crudely cut


OGR on a good day, similar condition

RockStock Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:47 pm

Sill Mat ('Grey')
click pics to enlarge



detail - bubble effect all over, no special edges

Sill Mat onto Tunnel Mat

not quite ideal to make the Sill Mat from a Tunnel Mat, but you might just get away with it - inner edges are covered by the central Floor Mats

coolairX2 Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:38 pm

If you can make this happen then count me in for a grey set for a Cardinal cabrio.
This certainly will cost a bit to get a mold made with a large enough run to make it worth while. I would guess a few thousand or more if done commercially.

-Craig

Jonas Burman2 Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:36 pm

Great pics Chris!...that one is fresch compared to what I have.
Have one with the same color. THAT is a puzzle!...the other green/grey one is more like the one in your pics...But dryer!.

RockStock Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:59 pm

craig, i think the og mat colour for the Cardinal Red Cab was Beige

a little strange as the mats for the Cardinal Red Coupe is listed as Grey, according to my chart

i now think the Bernina cabs mats were Grey, not Beige

for the Cabs, the general pattern seems that the mat colour matches the headlining colour (grey or beige) matches the glovebox interior colour
the exception is probably with the green mat...

i do not have a mat colour list for the 56/7 Ghia Coupes
someone else may have?
or work in progress....



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