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Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:33 am

Hi all,

changed my mind about turboing my 2liter NA, going to do a turboed street-drag engine eventually...

Here are the intended specs:

- CB 82mm crank
- Thick wall 92mm p/c
- CB 5,6" super race rods
- Webcam 218 on 114LC, maybe with 1,25 rockers
- stock or aluminium case
- 40/35,5 los banditos heads, P&P, etc
- Full EFI+ignition system, single throttle body central position
- 1 5/8" exhaust
- type 1 stock doghouse shroud and tins

What kind of turbo would you put in here?? (thinking about going blow-through though..)

Thanks for your help,
Leo

Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:58 am

Schwitzer S2A offers quick spool and will provide up to about 14 psi of boost on a 2180.T3/T4 hybrid spools a little later, but can yield 24 plus psi of boost. I have had both, and I prefer the hybrid.
Just wanted to point out that your engine will be pretty wide with a 5.600 rod length, if you want your compression about 7.5:1 or so.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:33 am

Thanks I was looking into the T3/T4 hybrid also..
I saw the pics of your bug in your signature (VERY nice BTW 8) ), were you able to locate the T3/T4 under the rear apron or is it too big to even think about it? I know the S2A is small in size but what about this one??

ThanX :)

Leo

Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:41 am

It's all hidden away, and fits quite well.Minimum fitting involved.The engine in my signature was a 2180 with an S2A.It's now a 2232 with a t3/t4.You will love your 2180 at 15 psi, bro! 8)

Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:45 am

The Noof wrote: It's all hidden away, and fits quite well.Minimum fitting involved.The engine in my signature was a 2180 with an S2A.It's now a 2232 with a t3/t4.You will love your 2180 at 15 psi, bro! 8)

Thanks I'm looking forward to "feeling" it...
What kind of numbers (ET/hp) did you get out of your engine?
What rods did you use?

Thx,
Leo :D

Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:51 am

I used 5.500 scat rods, arp bolts.Car ran a 12.49@112 on street tires, spinnin' like hell(that was the 2180 with the S2A).Much faster now with the 2232 and T3/T4.There's a VW only race weekend on June 23rd at Toronto motorsports speedway that I plan on attending.Hopefully some more of the Canadian Samba members will be there!
My hp is over 300@18 psi boost.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:18 am

Mmh sweeeet!
Did you have 40/35 valves in that 2180?
Considering this engine as a dragracing engine or "sometimes" for street use when I'm lazy to put the 2liter back in the bug, do you suggest me to swap some parts to get the best out of it?

Thanks again,
Leo :)

Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:32 am

Quote: - CB 82mm crank
- Thick wall 92mm p/c
- CB 5,6" super race rods
- Webcam 218 on 114LC, maybe with 1,25 rockers
I like that cam but whats your gear ratio like? that is a nice street cam but not the best drag only cam.
- stock or aluminium case
- 40/35,5 los banditos heads, P&P, etc
I would not use a 3/4" 14mm plug for any head that is going to see high heat from a turbo combo. If you dont have the heads yet, get a set of 041 new castings or 044. Also you will want a full guide boss to hold that intake guide/valve in place.
- Full EFI+ignition system, single throttle body central position
- 1 5/8" exhaust
thats a big header for a small combo.
I would use a 1 1/2" for your set up.
- type 1 stock doghouse shroud and tins
Just add an extra oil cooler and fan if this thing will see the street.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:57 am

Thanks A.J!
The only part I ordered few days ago is the cam and lifters..
The rest is for the near future hopefully :)
I have a 4.375 R&P stock geared trans right now (175/70R15 rear tires), but I know I'll have to consider a change here.. :?
I'll keep the 1 1/2" header..
What cam would you suggest? Is the LBC3 close to the Web 218?

Thanks for the advices

Leo

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:51 am

Small bump..

What cam would you suggest for this combo?? Knowing I'm leaning toward either the S2A or the hybrid T3/T4 turbo..

Thx
Leo

Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:17 am

First thing you must understand is that PSI is nothing more than a measurement of back pressure. What a turbo makes at this PSI does not mean it will on another setup. You need to read the compressor map to find what best suits you.
Next, a T3/T4 can come in ALOT of different options. You have anything from a .48AR to a .96AR+ on the hotside, B,E or S compressor cover, Clipped wheels,etc. You need to know what your HP goals are and then start looking at your budget. You can spend anywhere from $200- $1200 on a turbo. There are ball bearing, dual ball bearing, journal bearing, OEM and custom/hybrids turbos.

Are you going to run an intercooler?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:43 am

Quote: What cam would you suggest for this combo?? Knowing I'm leaning toward either the S2A or the hybrid T3/T4 turbo..

I would not go with the S2A, on the smalll side for your combo.
As for just saying you need or should run a T3/T4. Like 67 Westy said: just saing "Hybrig" is like saying "Ford" as you have not said what car yet.
you will need to pick from about 40 dif hybrid combos.

Sorry the LBC3 is not like the Web 218 at all.

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:13 pm

Okay thanks guys, I'm learning.. :oops:
I thought about the hybrid CB sells:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1623
I think 250-280hp is the maximum I'd like to get, and yep I'll run an intercooler.
I'll read an read and read more about it for sure, lots of stuff to work on..

Thanks for your tips guys :)

Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:20 pm

bugsterkafer wrote: Okay thanks guys, I'm learning.. :oops:
I thought about the hybrid CB sells:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1623
I think 250-280hp is the maximum I'd like to get, and yep I'll run an intercooler.
I'll read an read and read more about it for sure, lots of stuff to work on..

Thanks for your tips guys :)

Are you building the kit yourself or buying one? If you are building it I would recommend NOT go with the T3/T4 that you listed for 250-280HP. That is running a .63AR by .70AR compressor (more than likey and S cover) and with what you have listed for mods, it is not what I would run. That turbo will more than likely not come on until 3700-4000RPM. If you where going for 325+HP then I would say it would be ok. For what you have listed and your HP goals I would get into a T2 series turbo or something similar.
If you are doing it yourself and on a budget I would go with a TD04 off a WRX. Those can be had for about $100-$150 in good used condition. However if you got some money I would jump into a Garrett GT28RS. Are you going to run an Air/Air or water/air intercooler?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:51 pm

I am running a 2180 with a t3/t4..57 wheel,.50ar comp,.63 turbine. Works great. I have it set at around 14 psi. I also have the 40x35 valves. Using a 1 1/2 inch header.

Air to air intercooled also. Let me know if you have any questions.

Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:54 pm

bugsterkafer wrote: Mmh sweeeet!
Did you have 40/35 valves in that 2180?
Considering this engine as a dragracing engine or "sometimes" for street use when I'm lazy to put the 2liter back in the bug, do you suggest me to swap some parts to get the best out of it?

Thanks again,
Leo :)

Heads are CB 42x35 cnc ported.Exhaust is 1 5/8.Having actually used the S2A on a 2180, I will dissagree with A.J. and say it worked great as a quick spool/14 psi boost turbo in stock trim as sold by CB performance. If you want BIG boost and HP, go with the T3/T4 hybrid in a configuration that best suits your engine combo and HP goals.

Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:33 am

c54fun wrote: I am running a 2180 with a t3/t4..57 wheel,.50ar comp,.63 turbine. Works great. I have it set at around 14 psi. I also have the 40x35 valves. Using a 1 1/2 inch header.

Air to air intercooled also. Let me know if you have any questions.
I use the same turbo on my 2006cc engine It will max out at 14 or so psi with just me in it. If i have someone with me it will go higher. in a glass buggy there is less weight and that hurts the boost a little but makes up in speed .
I did have a t3 before it would hit 18psi on flat roads and 23 on a little hill. that is fun.
the t3/t4 combo has a faster responce and hits harder than the t3. down side is the t3/t4 combo has a harder time in 4th gear with my gearing and tire size. 31'' tires. it is a trade off when changing things. I will adjust the gearing in 4th next time I have to fix the trans. I also have 40x35 heads and a 1 1/2 '' header.

Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:02 am

Thanks for all of your replies!
I'm going air/air intercooling. And yes I'm going to build the system "myself" (with a friend), maybe taking some parts here and there also if needed.
c54, what cam are you using in that engine? Do you know an estimate hp?
It seems like the A/R is on the high side for CB's T3/T4, I'll be looking for something near .50 compressor I think.
It'll go in my 67 bug, 205/70 or 175/70 tires or slicks (I have both) with a 4.375 R&P trans.. looking for some high 11's-low 12's times in the 1/4mile..

Edit: I also saw this T3/T4 on A.J's site, vwturbokits.com, I assume it's the one you're using c54?

"T3/T4 TO4E good for over 300hp
1915 and up motors that wants Big power. street, sand or drag use.
T3 4 bolt flange to mount to your header
5 Bolt exhaust flange or 3" v-band outlet if you order with internal wastegate
3" inlet diameter
2" outlet diameter
1/8 NPT oil inlet (oil feed lin kit)
.50 A/R POLISHED COMPRESSOR
.63 A/R Turbine.
.57 trim "

Thanks!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:10 pm

I have an older cam. 282 cam. It is a hydraulic with 400 lift 286 duration. Using 1.24 rockers. Worked over heads. I bought the turbo from ebay. Has worked well for over a year now. As far as hp. I dont know. I will be taking it to the dyno this spring. 180 to 220 ???? I will find out. It pulls really hard all the way threw the gears. Feeling the boost is great.
I have video's of it doing good 2nd gear wheelies. (small rail) Lots of fun.

Dont forget your trans. Remember the faster they go the faster they go. Clunk,clunk clunk.

Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:41 pm

ditto on the trans. I went through 3, totally built to the hilt it has held up well. along with racing axles and disk brakes to stop the buggy. it will go faster 0 to 60 than 60 to 0