TheSamba.com :: View topic - Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic

Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:43 pm

Ive read both pages and I'm waiting for someone to tell me what grade and what brand to use. I look to the web to give me the info without the time and effort of doing my own research. I'm like the Paris Hilton of bug owners! Duh!!

But seriously folks...the bug is supposed to use 30 wt according to VW right? It seems to be more dificult to find nondetergent 30W (dont think I'm supposed to use HD oil) From what I can gather new SM oil is not good. With some of you recommending oil changes at 1000 miles!!! I imagin that the new old stock oil will be gone soon.

Dont mean to put you on the spot but, what oil should I use in a stock 1600 air cooled VW??

Regards,

Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:49 pm

If it were mine I would switch it to Royal Purple and use 20/50 in the VW,,, you can find this oil in NAPA and a few others..

I have a built 1776, and have been using RP for a few years now, no problems except better fuel economy, cooler running, etc

Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:22 pm

vdoubleyou wrote: Ive read both pages and I'm waiting for someone to tell me what grade and what brand to use. I look to the web to give me the info without the time and effort of doing my own research. I'm like the Paris Hilton of bug owners! Duh!!

But seriously folks...the bug is supposed to use 30 wt according to VW right? It seems to be more dificult to find nondetergent 30W (dont think I'm supposed to use HD oil) From what I can gather new SM oil is not good. With some of you recommending oil changes at 1000 miles!!! I imagin that the new old stock oil will be gone soon.

Dont mean to put you on the spot but, what oil should I use in a stock 1600 air cooled VW??

Regards,

There is no good reason to use nondetergent oil.

Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:42 am

Jake Raby recommends Brad Penn...
that's good enough for me.
Also one I've seen highly recommended is Valvoline's oil that's NOT street legal.

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:39 pm

Towel Rail wrote: vdoubleyou wrote: Ive read both pages and I'm waiting for someone to tell me what grade and what brand to use. I look to the web to give me the info without the time and effort of doing my own research. I'm like the Paris Hilton of bug owners! Duh!!

But seriously folks...the bug is supposed to use 30 wt according to VW right? It seems to be more dificult to find nondetergent 30W (dont think I'm supposed to use HD oil) From what I can gather new SM oil is not good. With some of you recommending oil changes at 1000 miles!!! I imagin that the new old stock oil will be gone soon.

Dont mean to put you on the spot but, what oil should I use in a stock 1600 air cooled VW??

Regards,

There is no good reason to use nondetergent oil.

I can think of one reason only...Inital break in

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:35 pm

udidwht wrote: I can think of one reason only...Inital break in

That's a reason, but not a good one. Break-in is when your cam and lifters need ZDDP the most, and nothing in modern non-synthetic oil is going to keep parts from breaking in. Using non-detergent at any point amounts to "abuse" in my book.

Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:26 am

Detergent oils wash the oil from the components and thats not good at all for break in!

I have used synthetics, conventional oil;s and semi synthetics for break in and have never had an issue with any of them.......

Now I use and mandate Brad Penn break in oil for all my engines and engine kits as well as the Brad Penn racing oils for the duration of the engine's life.

Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:33 pm

Jake Raby wrote: Detergent oils wash the oil from the components and thats not good at all for break in!

They ought not to. If the detergents somehow interfere with the oil film then that's a genuine problem.

Quote: I have used synthetics, conventional oil;s and semi synthetics for break in and have never had an issue with any of them.......

All non-detergent?

The only non-detergent oils I see on the shelf are SA, meaning no additives of any kind. Would you recommend their use for anything?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:10 pm

i just purchased my first bug. 65 w / 1641. i changed the oil to day (first time since purchase) the thing only hold 2.5 qts. and the change took all of 10 min. did not clean the screen. i am planing on 1500 mi change intervals 2.5 qts shouldn't take long to get dirty. also i feel that good quality oil with the proper weight for the climate should be sufficient for long engine life. a working oil pump also helps.
jd

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:25 am

Towel Rail wrote: Is it illegal for you CA guys to order part #1052367 from here directly?

- Scott

that item is now discontinued on that webpage

Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:31 pm

bruce_childress wrote: Towel Rail wrote: Is it illegal for you CA guys to order part #1052367 from here directly?

- Scott

that item is now discontinued on that webpage

Yep, we noticed! http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243861

Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:13 am

CobraDriver wrote: I would like to add my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

I used to fly corporate jets and we had a fleet of 10 that catered to the NASCAR guys. My engines idled at 25,000 and at altitude much higher.

We used synthetic, never replaced it and each engine was worth $250K

They flew real high and lasted a long time plus they never quit.

That sold me, I use synthetic in everything mechanical I have including my tractor.

Just wanted to give another view. EXCELLENT site and great folks =D>

CD

The reason the oil in gas turbine engines last a long time is due to the fact that the oil is their too lubricate ball and roller bearings, it doesn't see combustion like a piston engine. It does cool the bearings in the hot section but Labrynth(multi-knife edge) seals keep the oil from the combustion chamber due to air pressure. And yes turbine engines spinning at 39000 RPM sound awesome especially when you are standing next to one at full noise in a test cell, checking for oil and fuel leaks or aadjusting the FCU.

Damo.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:39 pm

20w/50 dino

i'd use asbestos brake pads if i could tho

Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:50 pm

I have a few SAE journals on detergents and anti-wear properties. If a detergent package is too aggressive, it indeed can clean the anti-wear film off of parts. That is why I started paying attention to detergency levels in motor oils and which detergents were being used to give the total detergency. Although the Brad Penn oil might not have the most amount of Zn and P of all motor oils available, they have carefully chosen three different detergents that together in lower levels, provide the needed detergency while maintaining a good balance.

I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about motor oils :-)

Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:29 pm

I've been using Valvoline racing 20/50 and Castrol 20/50 with GM EOS for years and all engines [5] still together and no flat cams or low compression so it seems to work for me...

Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:51 pm

[email protected] wrote: I have a few SAE journals on detergents and anti-wear properties. If a detergent package is too aggressive, it indeed can clean the anti-wear film off of parts. That is why I started paying attention to detergency levels in motor oils and which detergents were being used to give the total detergency. Although the Brad Penn oil might not have the most amount of Zn and P of all motor oils available, they have carefully chosen three different detergents that together in lower levels, provide the needed detergency while maintaining a good balance.

I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about motor oils :-)

That's interesting. I don't doubt your (or Jake's) experience/knowledge here, but I hadn't heard about the "too much detergency" problem until you guys started talking about it. Are there any brands you would disapprove because of this?

Thanks,
- Scott

Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:36 am

Hard to quantify a number, but I know for a fact that Redline's true racing oils are non-detergent (with TONS of Zn and P) and that Valvoline's VR-1 "non-street-legal" has about 50% the detergents of it's more common version sold everywhere under the VR-1 name.

API P (ppm) Zn (ppm) B (ppm) Mo (ppm) Ca (ppm) Mg (ppm) Na (ppm) Total Detergents
SE-SJ 1301 1280 151 357 1936 293 214 2443
CI-4 1150 1374 83 80 2642 199 2840
SL 994 1182 133 273 2347 109 22 2479
CJ-4 819 1014 26 2075 7 2082
SM 770 939 127 122 2135 13 139 2287

Sorry the formatting is bad, but you can see the running averages I've collected for the different API oils. Some of the oils with the highest levels of detergents I have seen have been Chevron Delo and Valvoline Blue, with levels around 4000 ppm in the CI-4 version. Rotella CI-4 had for comparison ~2900.

Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:59 am

redline is notorious for making engine internals rust over the off season of racing... The detergent is the cause of this..

I have seen it start to occur after only one month of sitting in the sump after a race.

Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:38 pm

Yikes. Having "drunk the kool-aid" on diesel oils, I'm now starting to worry a little. (I've been using Rotella.)

Code: API P (ppm) Zn (ppm) B (ppm) Mo (ppm) Ca (ppm) Mg (ppm) Na (ppm) Total Detergents
SE-SJ 1301 1280 151 357 1936 293 214 2443
CI-4 1150 1374 83 80 2642 199 2840
SL 994 1182 133 273 2347 109 22 2479
CJ-4 819 1014 26 2075 7 2082
SM 770 939 127 122 2135 13 139 2287
It seems like the CJ-4 and SM formulations are getting less detergents than the previous ones. Think this is their attempt to counteract the lower ZDDP levels?

I've noticed something else from your charts -- EOS and STP have a big whack of detergents. Another good reason to use them in moderation, I suppose...

darn that ocd...

Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Crane Cams break in additive seems to be an 8oz bottle of Zinc and Phos, dash of boron... at VERY high levels... (like enough for many gallons of oil...) Not bad for $8.95.. Anyone tried it?

http://sterkel.org/avanti/documents/HowMuchAdditive.pdf