TheSamba.com :: View topic - anyone running a FK-10 on the street?

Sat May 26, 2007 8:45 pm

True, True. I just assumed we were talking about the average 2 litre.

The FK-10 may make more torque in any engine, it is hard for me to believe, but I have zero experience with that cam.

Also, you need to consider that street driving is done at part throttle, dyno work is done at 100% throttle. This can affect how a cam works.

Alan_U wrote: Not only would engine displacement be a variable to cam selection. The characteristics of how the head flows from .050 - .550+ valve lift is a also a factor.

I guess typically a smaller duration cam will give you better bottom end characteristics than a larger duration.

The cam will give the window for valve opening and closing timing events. Induction and exhaust is also part of the recipe. Perhaps in the dyno results the K8 didn't "appreciate" the vents in the carbs :wink: So many variables to say "this cam is the best"

Sat May 26, 2007 10:41 pm

These test were done with 42 dcnfs 44ifs and 48idfs with vents from 32 to 40 mm. You obviusly have not tried a k10 or you would know what we are talking about. I recomend you get one so you can see how well it works.

Sat May 26, 2007 10:53 pm

the motor were 2007 to 2472. I built 4 motors with k8s and the k10 out did all of the motors with k8s. Bones 53 has a graph showing how it woks.

Sun May 27, 2007 12:10 am

Ken Taber wrote: the motor were 2007 to 2472. I built 4 motors with k8s and the k10 out did all of the motors with k8s. Bones 53 has a graph showing how it woks.

hmmmmmmmm

apples to apples. Identical specs?? 2007cc vs. 2007cc identical except cam???

I'd imagine a cam like that would top out on HP at 6500 rpms or so on the dyno.

I wonder if I can make just as much power with a K10 compared to my CB2289. I doubt it for some reason. No track time with my fk47 but that cam honestly suprises me how it comes on at such a low rpm.

Sun May 27, 2007 5:19 am

Allen , you are right ,the peak hp is at 6500 with the k10. Your k47 has to better. The k47 is our next test cam.

Sun May 27, 2007 5:21 am

what are the specks on this cam , the cb 2289.

Sun May 27, 2007 8:21 am

CB 2289 duration at 0.050 274' lift with 1.4s .557 :wink:

Sun May 27, 2007 10:08 am

Ken Taber wrote: Allen , you are right ,the peak hp is at 6500 with the k10. Your k47 has to better. The k47 is our next test cam.

The CB2289 is suppose to be close to the fk87 but when I was at Darren Krewenchuks shops we degreed the cam and it was by far a tighter cam that would provide more cylinder pressure.

I dont doubt the K10 is a good cam. The thing about the aircooled volkswagen world is people get a "recipe" and think its written in stone. I guess we are all guilty of that sometimes.

Darren Dilley's oval (DVKK) made 183HP at the wheels with a 9.5:1 compression 2332. That cam topped out at around 6500rpms. A set of Kroc heads, CB2289 with jaycee 51 ida's. Not bad for an engine that had a set of scat lifters that made the cam go flat. One of the lobes were flat apparently. That engine used the recipe I made the year before that ran my best 11.95 sec with 9.4:1 c/r.

I beat the living hell out of my cb2289 and I was making just as fast ET's with 7200 rpms compared to when I beat her to 8300 rpms. I was gonna try to shift at 7000 rpms but my tranny grenaded.

Ken, good to see your a guy that does extensive testing with a cam shafts. I think you should try the CB2289, Fk46, fk47 and the pauter 03E8. The pauter cams are just as rampy as the Fk40 series.

Right now I'm concerned that my fk47 is eating my lifter bores. I'm getting more sliver sheen in my oil on my 2nd oil change of my new 2332. This is in a brand new mag case. I really feel a sleeved silicon bronze lifter bore is a good idea for a rampy cam or using a 20lbs heavier aluminum case.

Sun May 27, 2007 10:26 am

Speaking of K8... what the peak rpm with dual springs?

I've yet to push mine past 6000 since its still new, but it seems to have a lot left in it.

Sun May 27, 2007 10:29 am

I don't think I'd push it past about 7K Glenn. Are the springs Bugpacks?

Remember - valve float is about the worst enemy you've got.. and you better change them suckas about every 20K unless you get them treated, if you intend to wind it up. 6500 is probably where you're going to start slowing on power-making..

Sun May 27, 2007 12:41 pm

Glenn wrote: Speaking of K8... what the peak rpm with dual springs?

I've yet to push mine past 6000 since its still new, but it seems to have a lot left in it.

Glenn there is alot left in there. I dont know the "mystery" dual springs that comes with those mexi heads you have.

You must always rev past your peak HP rpms due to rpm drop in shifing. I know you have an excel spreadsheet calculating the rpms drops with the r/p, gear configuration.

I wouldn't be suprised if the K8 tops out in 6200 rpms (peak HP) This is where you shift at 6800 to stay in the power band. When you hit 6800 rpms you may feel it still has more but infact its false "seat of your pants feel" A good test is to take it to the track and shift at different rpms (ex. 6500, 6600, 6800, 7000rpms) If the the ET's or MPH doesn't change shift at the lower rpms. No sense beating the sh!! out of a motor that doesn't produce power at the higher rpms.

No such thing as driving an engine "easy" when its new. Drive it hard the way you intend it. If its setup to revv past 7000 rpms take it there. If stuff goes wrong it will go wrong. Babying an engine is fine but if the parts are good to begin with they will take a beating for a very very long time with no issues.

Glenns 42mm?? intakes?? if so they are not that heavy. 7000 rpms for mystery springs is just asking for pitted lifters. Just drive your car and enjoy. In the cold winters worry about spending time pulling out valve springs "in car" with an SP tool valve spring remover.

Sun May 27, 2007 1:00 pm

OK.. 6500-6800 sounds good to me.

Baby it.. no way. I have 500 miles on it and have laid into it a few times. Just don't need to test the top most rpm until I know where to expect it.

Just today I took a friend for a quick drive and the wheels were still spinning at 40mph in 2nd gear. I guess I need to toss the Pirelli's and get some stickier tires.

Sun May 27, 2007 9:23 pm

thanks for the info....

Ken, can you give a little more info on the engines that you did back-back comparisons with.....also;

- what comp ratio
- how did you set up the cam - standard or advanced..??I have found that engle grinds them advanced a few degrees?

I have looked at the dyno tests that Bones sent me and the K10 does definitely come on sooner than the k8 . the K10 looks to be a flatter torque curve also. With this in mind, why do you think that it is no where near as popular than the K8??? old habit die hard eh or what?

thanks

Mon May 28, 2007 10:23 am

You all are right on what you have said. If any of you would like the graph of Bones 53s engine that we dyno'd ,it will show you k8 in my 2007 vs his k10 in his 2007 . All the other parts and specks of both engines are almost identical. Just send me you fax # and I will send you the graph. As far as k10 not being as popular I'm sure it is because of the advertized duration . k8 258 at .050 and k10 266 at .050. This is alll guys have to go on. The acutual effects can only be shown on the dyno. Also the CB 2289 which is similar to engle fk87 will make a few hp more but it is much more pipey and not as driveable on the street.

Mon May 28, 2007 10:43 am

post the graph

Mon May 28, 2007 10:46 am

I dont think he can or he would have already,your an old guy right Ken :D

Mon May 28, 2007 11:01 am

I'm old also, what are you saying, old people can't work computers?

Mon May 28, 2007 11:03 am

What do you consider old?

Mon May 28, 2007 11:04 am

Yes :P im old too 49 3/4 and i cant work mine either :oops:

Mon May 28, 2007 11:06 am

I've got a few years on you and have no problem with computers.