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Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:29 pm

I've just bought an ex Cal black plate 23 - I understand the significance of the black plate.

But what's with plate restorers in the US?

Why do you have to get plates restored by approved repairers - why not go get new ones like we do - I guess it's a legal thing, but why?

Curious.

thanks

Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:35 pm

In New York if you are using vintage plates they can not be restored.

Each state is different.

Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:37 pm

Glenn wrote: In New York if you are using vintage plates they can not be restored.

Each state is different.

So when the letter paint fades off and you have raised letters on a same colour background.............

I know we have some wierd laws here, but curious as to why?

Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:54 pm

M.I.B wrote: Glenn wrote: In New York if you are using vintage plates they can not be restored.

Each state is different.

So when the letter paint fades off and you have raised letters on a same colour background.............

I know we have some wierd laws here, but curious as to why?

If the plate are worn then you can't use them. They don't want them restored because the originals use a reflective paint.

My original 74 rear plate is in very nice shape. The front is not as nice and not mounted.

Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:14 pm

The rules for re-registering old plates to restored vehicles, as well as having old liscense plates restored to new condition definately differ from state to state. As a former employee of the California Highway Patrol however, I am very confident in saying that as long as the plate is legally registered to your vehicle and the numbers are correct? Restoring a plate to new condition probably won't get you a citation, regardless of what the laws state. This is also true because most vintage vehicles existed in years where reflective paint didnt exist yet, so a restored plate will look just like an original plate that was kept in storage for 50 years.

Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:18 pm

I would agree that you won't get a ticket for a restored plate. I know of many that do have restored plates on their cars.

Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:59 pm

cdydatzigs wrote: The rules for re-registering old plates to restored vehicles, as well as having old liscense plates restored to new condition definately differ from state to state. Exactly. You're generalizing about the United States. Think of the 50 states as 50 separate countries with 50 different sets of regulations. If the question is about a California plate, it's California specific.

As to why there are laws against restoring plates, your guess is as good as mine. But I know it's a law here in Florida as well.

Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:07 pm

Humorously written excerpt from my site thebugshop.orb on this issue. I went through ALL of this already!!

It was the week before I was leaving for Europe on a two week business trip, there was a lot of pressure to get the car registered before I left. The number of "good" days that I could drive the car before winter was dwindling. I decided to take the Friday of that week off from work to get ready for my trip and spend some time with family. That Thursday evening I decided to go to the registry as it was open until 7 in the evening. I collected all my paperwork and headed out of work. On the way home, I started having this uneasy feeling about the painted plate. It was too nice, it was shiny and there was no doubt looking at it that it had been restored. I decided to stop at my house on the way home, which was on the way to the registry and quickly try to do something to it to make it look a little "less restored".

Plan "A" was to mix some black poster paint that my kids had in a solution with water, immerse the plate in it and dry it. I was hoping that a film would dry on the plate taking much of the shine off of it. I hastily tried this, but it didn't work. The solution just rolled off of the urethane black paint like a freshly waxed car. On to plan "B", which I had had in the back of my mind for some time. I grabbed a paper grocery bag and went out into the garage. I opened up the shop-vac and collected a handful of the fine dust that was in there and put it in the bag. I laid the plate on the work bench and lightly misted it with a photo mount spray glue, then I flipped it over and did the other side. I dropped it into the bag, closed it and shook it. When I opened it, I almost couldn't believe what I saw. The plate was covered with fine layer of dust, and looked like it could have just been take from years on a barn wall. I tossed the bag into the car and headed for the registry.

Hurricane Floyd had come up the coast and while the winds weren't that bad, the rain was pouring down. Streets were flooding. Almost to the registry, I wondered if I would be able to find a covered place to park to empty the bag of the dust and brush the plate off a bit. Luckily, there was a free parking garage right across from the registry. I emptied the bag, and dropped the plate in its edge to shake some dust off of it. Perfect. I put it back in the wrinkled bag, stuff it in my backpack and headed inside. Surprisingly, there were only about 12 people in the whole place waiting for registrations, licenses, etc. It was about 5:45pm. I took a ticket and waited for my number to be called. When my turn came, I asked the lady at the window for Mr. White (not his real name either). She called to a middle aged man who motioned me down to a window on the end. I told him who I was, and he said that he had spoken to Mr. Carver in Boston about my situation. I produced for him the notarized letter, the VIN verification form, the insurance form and the handwritten bill of sale. I told him about how I had worked on the car for eight years and had spent weeks trying to get it registered.

He said "Do you have you plate?". I said yes, took it out of the paper bag and handed it to him, brushing a little dust off with my hand as I did. He looked at it for a few seconds, flipped it over, then began to rub some dust off of it with his thumb. "I found it at and antique store in Vermont" I said.

"It’s been touched up", he said.

I pretended not to hear "they are really hard to find now" I said.

"It’s been touched up", he said again.

"It’s what?"

"It has been painted"

"Yeah?" I said curiously.

"It has to be original for you to use it."

I rolled my eyes, and (politely) said "Oh man. I took this to the special plates office and he girl said I could use it, I showed it to Mr. Carver and he said nothing. I can't believe this!"

"See" he said, continuing to rub the back of the plate with his thumb, "you can see here that it had rusted and was repainted"

"Ohhhhh yeah…."

He asked me if I had the Year of Manufacture plate form, I said no, but thought that maybe by him asking, there was hope. Walked into a back room, came back with a form and handed it to me "you need to fill this out". Then he started examining the plate again. I asked him where does it say that the plate cannot be restored/painted? He said "well, it isn't exactly clear, it is kind of like lawyer talk". He pointed me to sentence on the form that something like "the plate must be in good condition and of original issue". Yeah, what does that say about painting? He said that implied in "original issue" was the notion that it could not be repainted. I asked what would happen if it were rusty and unreadable, he said then it wouldn’t be allowed to be used. He admitted it was a gray area.

He put the plate down and said "I'll overlook it this time, since you had already been in Mr. Carver’s office". Score! I snatched the plate back and quickly put it back in the bag. I started filling out the YOM plate form and Mr. White went on to say that the YOM registrations carried the same driving restrictions as an antique plate. A surprise to me, but no real issue.

Lesson learned: 1) Get your plate 2) register the car )3 THEN restore it.

And BTW, I was told if the plate was in very poor condition to start, they would just tell you can't use it.....

Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:08 pm

johnshenry wrote:
Lesson learned: 1) Get your plate 2) register the car )3 THEN restore it.
Good advice.

Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:09 pm

I just think it odd that in a country where very modified cars pass "the test" (like we can in the UK too) that you have a law prohibiting/limiting the restoration of old plates. Just wanted to know why.

I can see the law being tough in countries where they don't allow modified vehicles through the annual inspection (France, Denmark and to some extent Germany) but why such an odd rule in such a "free" country (vehicular wise)

Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:26 pm

In California, a stolen license plate is like a stolen vehicle.. or a stolen driver's license. The level of fraud that can be had when a criminal has fake/wrong license plates or identification in their posession is quite high when you think about it, which is why they are taken so seriously and the laws so strict. This is just the DMV's way of making sure that the plates the police and highway patrol see out on the road are as authentic and as original as possible. Keep in mind also there are far more cars on the road here then in the UK, so the odds of people trying to take advantage of the system go up as well.

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:07 am

One thing you need to know is that in NA, the DMV manufactures all the plates. Not like in the UK where you go to a private co and pay them to make your plate.
I think one of the reasons you can't restore a plate is that some people restore them so poorly they don't even look authentic. Given that, the DMV can't comprehend how accurate a proper job can be.

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:11 am

Bruce wrote:
I think one of the reasons you can't restore a plate is that some people restore them so poorly they don't even look authentic. .

That seems to be a legitimate reason.

Do the inmates still make plates like in the Shawshank Redemption?

We can't make our inmates do any work - it's an infringement of their human rights and work might interrupt their 3 square meals, gym time and TV watching.

Seriously, we've had a recent clampdown on plate making - you need to produce ID and ownership papers before plates get made these days.

Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:31 am

M.I.B wrote: Bruce wrote:
I think one of the reasons you can't restore a plate is that some people restore them so poorly they don't even look authentic. .

That seems to be a legitimate reason.

Do the inmates still make plates like in the Shawshank Redemption?

We can't make our inmates do any work - it's an infringement of their human rights and work might interrupt their 3 square meals, gym time and TV watching.

Seriously, we've had a recent clampdown on plate making - you need to produce ID and ownership papers before plates get made these days.

Some prisons still make plates, but ot many.

Another reason is that in the later years, reflective paint was used, and the DMV wants to make sure that it isn't covered up, removed, etc. But my '57 YOM plates were just white letters on black...

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:06 am

M.I.B wrote: Bruce wrote:
I think one of the reasons you can't restore a plate is that some people restore them so poorly they don't even look authentic. .

That seems to be a legitimate reason.

Do the inmates still make plates like in the Shawshank Redemption?

We can't make our inmates do any work - it's an infringement of their human rights and work might interrupt their 3 square meals, gym time and TV watching.

Seriously, we've had a recent clampdown on plate making - you need to produce ID and ownership papers before plates get made these days.

Our Texas plates are still being made by inmates at our Huntsville prison, they are not stamped anymore but laser printed. When I had to register my vert's YOM plates it was pretty easy, what was hard was the YOM trailer plate :? Locating one took about 6 months and getting it registered was a bear. :shock:

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:11 am

That's perseverance. Germany has seperate plates and documents for trailers too.

Here in GB, we just sling on a copy of the tow vehicle plate. There is no inspection for trailers, you are just required to keep it road legal/ roadworthy.

My trailer plate holder fits 2 set of plates, one behind the other. I just flip them over depending whther the crew is towing or the Tdi.

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:51 am

Once I complete the restoration of the '69 I am doing for my mom, I will begin the barn-hunting for a 50's or 60's convertible to restore for myself. When it comes time to get a pair of yellow California plates, I will take them to the company below for restoration. Expensive, but remarkable!

http://www.tagdr.com/Gallery.htm

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:00 am

So how does it work in Cal for example. You find a car from out of state. You fix it up and get it inspected.

Where does the reg number come from. Do you have to go hunting for and old one or does the DMV issue it?

Over here when we bring a splity in from the US :D we get it inspected, go to the equivalent of the DMV with all the US papers and perhaps a letter from VW saying how old the vehicle is and they issue the number relating to it's age. It is then up to us to go bet that number made up into a plate, using all the documentation as proof before the plate is made.

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:23 am

M.I.B wrote: So how does it work in Cal for example. You find a car from out of state. You fix it up and get it inspected.

I am glad you asked because I bought my '69 in Alabama and shipped here to CA for restoration :D

Registering an Out-of-State Car in California

In CA you need two things for this scenario. A transfer of title application (this officially signs over ownership of the vehicle from the previous owner to you) - and you need to have the vehicle's VIN inspected seeing as this would be the first time the car is registered in California. Normally, this would have been taken care of at the dealership when the car was sold new if it had been sold here first.

Once the VIN is checked and the transfer of title is completed and I have paid the first year of registration on the spot? The woman behind the desk hands me two brand new license plates to go on the car and I am done.

Registering Vintage Plates in California

Unfortunately for me, in CA I cannot go out and find the appropriate older black CA plates and have them registered on my restored '69. The only way a vehicle in California can have black license plates is if they are the originals that came with the car. However, if the car was built in 1962 or before? You can register old yellow plates on the car if you find a pair. From what I understand there is a bill going through the California senate to move that year up to 1971. This would mean 1971 and older cars could have vintage plates from other cars (as long as they are "cleared" at the DMV) to be registered. I'm crossing my fingers!

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:30 am

I understand. thanks.

So if you want "1coolheb" as a plate in CA, you ask for it when you register - or do you have to pay extra at registraton (if the number is unallocated)

Another question - if my samba was de-registered when it left, will that number be re-allocated to something else, or could I claim that black plate back if the bus came back to CA, and I had proof it existed (but no plates in my hand)?