TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:45 am

Thought you guys might be interested in dyno results of my 2276 street engine. Before anyone comments on the "low" HP for a 2276 consider that the heads are 40x35, the cam is an E-120, the carbs are Dell 40s w/ 32mm vents, and the cam gears are beveled (i.e. quiet). Dyno was with fan belt, working alt, and through the muffler with 91 oct gas. Small valves, small cam, small carbs, but look at that torque curve...looks more like a type 4. Perfect for the street. The engine was built with the goal of a reliable, mildly tuned street engine with lots of torque, rapid throttle response, and decent mileage.

Yes I built it myself but with lots of advice and help from Jason @ VW paradise and from Darren @ DRD Racing. I can't say enough about how helpful both of these guys were. Heads (DRD Level 5), crank, rods, advice on the combo, and dyno session from DRD. Small parts, machining, and lots of help from VW paradise.

Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:46 am

That's not a torque curve, that's a torque "plateau" :twisted:

Looks like a solid street engine!

Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:49 am

looks like a fun toy. and i wouldnt necessarily consider a 160hp street engine a low power producer. :wink:

Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:33 am

67jason wrote: looks like a fun toy. and i wouldnt necessarily consider a 160hp street engine a low power producer. :wink:

Unfortunately, the Samba is notorious for @ssclowns dropping in and saying " *yawn* way to waste the displacement, you could've built a 160-hp 1914 daily driver". :roll:

That's a solid engine combo and should provide great longevity!

Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:42 am

Stripped66 wrote: 67jason wrote: looks like a fun toy. and i wouldnt necessarily consider a 160hp street engine a low power producer. :wink:

Unfortunately, the Samba is notorious for @ssclowns dropping in and saying " *yawn* way to waste the displacement, you could've built a 160-hp 1914 daily driver". :roll:

That's a solid engine combo and should provide great longevity!

yeah i know what you mean. i would much rather have a stroked 2 liter making 150-170hp then a strung out 1914 making the same numbers.

Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:58 am

Show us a 1/4 mile time slip. Thery are a lot more fun getting one then a dyno print out.

Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:53 am

That's a drivers torque curve.Should pull like a train, and not work hard at all even with moderate use.Good job, bro.

Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:20 am

Nice looking #s for sure you will some fun. Not bad for horse power at 158, but your torque is outstanding and keeps building. Good street engine.

Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:21 am

Thanks for posting! I have an almost identical engine in the works.

My questions are- How would this engine behave with 44 carbs and say,drd L6 heads instead of L5 with a little more cam? Would that much low end be lost?

Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:51 am

You're push the power up higher, but they're will be more of it.Low end torque will suffer.

Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:57 am

I'm suprised the enigine made that much HP with that cam and carb setup. A definite true test would be the MPH on a timeslip.

If that engine made it to the track I'd say it should be shifted a 6000 rpms (no higher) to compensate for any tall gears used. The car will start to slow down at the 5000 rpm mark.

Regardless of dyno numbers or timeslips that car will be a nice motor for the street. I suspect it'll fall hard on its face at 6000-6200 rpms. The false impression of pulling hard upto that rpm if you look at the torque curve.

The 158hp is merely a large number but in all honesty its not significant for real world application. The torque drops like a rock so the real max useable HP and torque is in the 5500 rpm range. 149.7 HP is awesome for a longevity 2276.

Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:39 am

Those are very good realistic numbers with that combo. That engine should live a long healthy life with that set up and be fun to drive. Good job man :D

Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:04 am

This engine will give you guys a idea on what can be done today with the parts and resources avaible today.
The owner and builder of the engine wanted to build a street driveable engine to drive anywere and last a long time, not a 1/4 mile engine with a high maintenance plan, and short life, pick one of the two, game over.
His engine will never see the track and was never inteneded to see the track. It not hard to click off a timeslip at a track, but to make the engine and power train last is another story.

With the bigger 42X37.5v DRD L6 heads, the torque would come in at the same rpms, and build more torque over the power band. This is were years of experience, flow bench data and dyno data come into the game. Years of collecting engine data will help the engine builder select the proper parts to build the right engine for the a given application.
The power of this street engine is pretty common at our shop, our dyno reads on the lower end of the scale compared to most dynos around.

It"s a no frills build, with the proper head design, cam selection, and carb selection. Get these right, and you have a engine that has a very good VE and builds a solid torque band.

Job well done Gerry!

Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:08 pm

Like Darren said, it's a street engine and will never see the track...probably never go over 6,000 on the street so I'm not worried about power dropping off over 6,200. I wanted an engine that would JUMP on the street and still deliver good mileage and solid reliability. The combo Darren recommended will do exactly that. Also I've got a street pro freeway flyer type trans with 3.88 R&P so it's geared for the street, not for the track.

What have I learned from this build? Aside from a wealth of info on building a stroker I learned 3 important things:

1) It's all in the combination. Big valves, carb, and cam aren't really necessary to make significant power. It's the combination that makes power.

2) Rather that trying to figure out the combo on your own, trust a pro who's built hundreds of engines.

3) Unless you're a tuning whiz, have a pro builder dial it in on their dyno. Money well spent. REALLY well spent.

Again, thanks to Darren and Jason for all their assistance. Couldn't have done it without them. AWSOME customer service!

Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:50 pm

Congrats Gerry. I know it's been a long haul, and along with that trans (say thank you Kevin) you're about 2 miles ahead of me. Well done ... now ... get that bad boy re-wired, and on the road.

Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:11 pm

Now that is a MOTOR! Looks like it comes to life at 2500 RPM and hangs on to pull stumps. Perfect road racing engine.

What compression ratio? Secret? :D

Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:30 pm

Quote: What compression ratio? Secret?

No secrets. CR is 9.2 and the deck is .080". The relatively large deck certainly doesn't seem to create any problems as it runs clean and reved instantly under load on the dyno.

Interesting that you say road racing as some years ago I raced in SCCA for a few years and also ran autocross back when it was still called slalom racing. I learned the importance of immediate throttle response and torque coming out of low speed turns and to some degree that experience dictated what I wanted in a street engine. The ghia's chassis is set up pretty much like an autocross car.

BTW, from Darren's experience with similar engines I have every expectation of getting better than 30 mpg in daily driving (as long as I keep my foot out of it :P ).

Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:15 pm

Gerrys engine was making torque, and alot of it right off idle. It's really hard to get a readings on the dyno at low rpms, so I start taking readings when we get the sweet spot on the rpms. Another thing to be aware of, just because the power falls off on a 100% load on the dyno, dosent mean the power falls off, when the engine is in the car, the car will never put a load on the engine like a dyno will.

Like I said, no secrects, a well planed out combo, with years experince, and data collection. Heads, this has alot to do with the power, cam, and carbs, along with being tunned correctly made this happen.
With out the correct tools to design engines, your shooting in the breeze, and wasting your money :D

Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:20 pm

Nothing wrong with a conservatively built engine that puts out 160hp. Remember it doesn't take much to get a Beetle moving. And it looks like it can easily smoke the tires.

Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:30 pm

No shit...Congrats on the engine!
I pray for a torque "curve" like that with my engine.