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Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:37 am

Mark,

I have contacted him and he is having a 25 plate made up for me for my missing airbox plate. It does not appear he stamps them and just sends them as seen in the photos. There are some inconsistancies with the font and reverse stamping but all in all it looks like a good stand in.

I applaud Gerson for doing the right thing. If you don't know what the actual VIN is or was. If you know and you are just trying to right the situation, that's a different story. Making one up is not the way to go. Remember, your character is measured by what you do when no one is looking. Before everyone gets all up and up, that in no way reflects my opinion of any previous posters. It's just an ideal to live by. Have a great day.

Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:00 pm

FranksMarket wrote: the bus should have been presented as not havng either tags!!! small detail to leave out!!?? dont ask dont tell?? alot of time and money could have been saved. who wants a calif retag sticker on there 30k bus?? [-X

do you notice the missing vin plate before or after you cut up nearly the entire truck? :lol:

Snoop Bob wrote: I applaud Gerson for doing the right thing. If you don't know what the actual VIN is or was.

the vin is clearly stamped in the engine compartment and there is currently legal paperwork for the vehicle

Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:05 pm

Are you saying there is still a VIN stamped on the bus? If that is the case, I don't see an issue.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:31 am

Porsche130, I guess, I was stupid and naive to think that the person selling me this bus would honest enough to point out to me that the bus did not have a VIN plate, like I said, stupid me for believing everyone is an honest "joe"....but hey, you live and learn.....and yes you are right, Tim tore into the truck, and did not bother to check himself, I guess he's naive enough to believe that something as obvious as the VIN would still be on the bus.......
the bus does have a number stamping on the right side rear engine tin, and the bus does have a title matching those numbers.....but like I said before, I am not dumping a shitload of money on a vehicle that does not have an Mcode plate, or a VIN plate.........this bus is now a very expensive donor bus.......important note to self, MAKE SURE the next project bus you buy has a VIN, and an Mcode plate before you make the deal........

Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:06 am

Just a note on this subject, I have registered two buses based on the frame stamping in the engine compartment. Those numbers were all that were available. If the bus isn't stollen and you have a bill of sale I don't see what the issue is. The first one, a policeman came out and verified the number as required by GA DMV and the other, the DMV clerk came out and verified it as per FL DMV regulations. No issues on either one and all is good.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:21 am

the issue is not one of being able to title the vehicle, or is the vehicle legal or not.....the issue is one of desirability, I am not going to restore a vehicle that does not have the actual VIN plate and the actual Mcode plate....at the end of the day, these vehicles are also a big investment....

Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:54 am

Gerson wrote: the issue is not one of being able to title the vihicle, or is the vehicle legal or not.....the issue is one of desirability, I am not going to restore a vehicle that does not have the actual VIN plate and the actual Mcode plate....at the end of the day, these vehicles are also a big investment....

What kind of a donor will that bus make? I don't think it has any usable metal. You would be better off giving it to Tim with an agreement that it can't be cut up and has to be put back on the road with Funky green. I bet someone in the North East would jump on that project, especially with stall20 ready to go on it.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:52 am

Gerson,

Just a thought but have the area between the nose skin & the inner support checked. I alway find cool stuff down there. Also the 67 poptop westy I am working on had both hiding down inside of there. Not likely to find them but it is worth a shot.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:52 am

I wholly agree with Gerson regarding--resale value--as an investment I see where He is coming from--can this truck be made into a show truck by Tim? ABSOLUTELY--is the time & $$$ invested going to net the desired selling price considering the vin issue? questionable---why dont we keep a thread on the work done-- Tim does it in His own Time--renegotiates with Gerson on the $$ issue and We hold an auction??? Im sure anyone would be happy to have a truck that Tim restored--the investor is lookin for originality and documentation--a Bus lover will be thrilled to have a quality resto done by (in my opinion) the premeir VW Bus restorer on the East Coast!! anyway You look @ it, Gerson & Tim are TOPNOTCH, honest Men who are not afraid to tackle a project, back up their work and above all present themselves and their product honestly--I think that speaks volumes about them and the bussinesses they run!

Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:06 am

FranksMarket wrote: [-o< yes, and parts are arriving daily for it!! gersons on a roll finding parts, and making whatever he cant find!! tim can do without sleep, who was that , that said, " ill sleep when im dead?" redbull stock is going to go up!!! stay tuned...

IT WAS WARREN ZEVON from THE BAND ("werewolves of london...")
and YES TIM has stock in Red Bull.......

Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:43 am

Gerson wrote: .......important note to self, MAKE SURE the next project bus you buy has a VIN, and an Mcode plate before you make the deal........

yes thats mostly true, and its VERY true for a bus you want to make a show car, but a vin is enough just to put the thing on the road, I think it depends on the end result but at a minimum one needs a vin.
I bought a bus (late 56') that was missing the ID plate in the engine compartment. At the time, I was too naive to know one was supposed to be there ( although I did know it was too early to have the M-Code plate ). It did have the vin stamped so it was ok in the end but I didn't find out the plate in the engine compartment was missing until after I sold it to the next guy :oops: Needless to say I was embarssed, and when I asked the previous owner he said he didn't notice either, so I guess it depends. But in the end, the buyer needs to check this stuff -- don't get me wrong ITS THE SELLER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO DISCLOSE these things - but sometimes they forget or otherwise. I have a checklist now when I am buying a car, and checking the title/vin and ID plates is high on that list. But again, the importance of those ID's is proportional to how much you are spending on the bus in my opinion.

Tim - Nice work - you going to be at Litchfield???

-rob

Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:16 am

I fully understand where Gerson is coming from, and it is his decision.
However, if the bus has its original VIN stamping, and matching title, then its value would be affected very, very little, in my opinion.
Especially if a birth certificate was obtained from the VW museum confirming that the bus was indeed a double cab.
Only a concours level show bus, or a bus with very unique options would be significantly affected by the lack of ID plates.

But, if someone is putting up the money and parts to rebuild a really rusty bus, as this is, I could certainly understand the decision to pick a better candidate at the beginning.

The good news for Gerson is that the VIN and title means that someone else who is willing to take the project on will buy this bus. If the VIN weren't present, THEN you'd have a worthless bus. This isn't.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:32 am

WWMRD?????

Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:47 pm

my65vert wrote: WWMRD?????

Well he would fab a perfect reproduction M Plate and VIN Plate from a toothpick and bailing wire that no one could discern as repo, of course. Why ask such a silly question we all know the answer to. :wink:

Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:37 pm

fuck it, after giving it much thought, and talking things over with Tim, among others, I have decided to move forward with the project..... I am not really thrilled to have a bus without ID tags, but what the hell, it's got a VIN # and a title, I guess it's going to have to do for now, I'll work on getting a reproduction VIN plate made, and hopefully someone will step up and return the Mcode plate..... shit, maybe someone out there has the original VIN plate sitting in a drawer somewhere and will come up with that also....besides, there is no way in hell we will make Bulli unless we go "balls out" from now until November....no more drama from me... :x :x :x :x

Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:39 pm

Gerson wrote: fuck it, after giving it much thought, and talking things over with Tim, among others, I have decided to move forward with the project..... I am not really thrilled to have a bus without ID tags, but what the hell, it's got a VIN # and a title, I guess it's going to have to do for now, I'll work on getting a eproduction VIN plate made, and hopefully someone will step up and return the Mcode plate..... shit, maybe someone out there has the original VIN plate sitting in a drawer somewhere and will come up with that also....besides, there is no way in hell we will make Bulli unless we go "balls out" from now until November....

WOOO HOOO 8)

Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:45 pm

I think it was a good decision. The extra hassle of coming up with the plate is a bummer, but it isn't as though the truck was stolen or anything. And it's going to be common knowledge that the truck was reconstructed from nearly nothing, so I don't see how the lack of original VIN plate changes that picture.

I look forward to seeing the progress on the truck!

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:25 pm

I'm glad to see you're moving forward.

This build is being put out there for everyone to see, it's not like you're trying to pass off a shady deal. In the end, everything will be legal, and the craftsmanship from both sides will stand on it's own.

I'll be watching.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:34 pm

Gerson wrote: I'll work on getting a reproduction VIN plate made

If you do figure out a way for this please let me know..I have pretty much the exact truck with the exact problem as you..
My title is correct match with the vin stamped in the engine compartment, but no vin plate and no m-code..

So if you can keep me in the loop on the reproduction vin plates that would be great...thanks

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:39 pm

\:D/ nice and now back to our regulary scheduled program!!