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Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:56 pm

First off, I did a search.... but didnt find anything.

I have been driving my bus for around three years now, with no real trouble.. except the occasional charging problem or something minor.

Recently I updated to a 1915cc engine, which runs really strong and Im extremely happy with the outcome.
My only trouble is, it seems to run on the warm side... I have no guage to tell me exactly the temp, but it just seems warm.

The engine was previously in a 60 beetle which ran just as strong, but it didnt seem to run quite so warm.

I have heard rumors that a bus will run hotter than a beetle with a bigger CC engine.... is there any truth to this?

Thank you for any input!

Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:04 pm

Also... my shroud is the doghouse style with NO heat.

My engine seal ( around the tin to body) is pretty rough... but not 100% missing.

My apron has the extra holes FOR the heat tubes, so I do need to get rid of those...

Still, Im unsure if welding up the apron and a new engine seal would help me all that much!

Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:06 pm

The same engine will run hotter in a bus than in a bug, yes. There's a little less airflow in a bus engine compartment and the engine is pushing more weight in the bus.

IMO, though, welding up the apron and doing the new engine seal is definitely a good idea. Every little bit helps, right?

Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:12 pm

The 1776cc engine that I had in my 1963 camper ran hot and, no matter what I did, it wouldn't run much cooler. I read on the internet that synthetic oil would make it cooler because there would be less friction; I put 20/50 Castrol Syntec in it and the oil was about 15 degrees cooler, on average.

Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:25 pm

yustrn's bus ran cool with an 1835, driven hard. there was a time where the bus was running without an apron and it ran cool too, so I don't think that's it. we could get off the freeway and grab the dipstick

Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:50 pm

Campy wrote: The 1776cc engine that I had in my 1963 camper ran hot and, no matter what I did, it wouldn't run much cooler. I read on the internet that synthetic oil would make it cooler because there would be less friction; I put 20/50 Castrol Syntec in it and the oil was about 15 degrees cooler, on average.

I thought that synthetic oil is bad for aicooled engines? Told that the oil is "cooler" because it is not taking the heat from the engine therefore the heads and parts are actually hotter?

Is this wrong?

Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:10 am

I have the same issue. Weather has something to do with it too. If you are in nor cal and its cool, you have a bonus. At least down here in fla, its always hot as hell and your motor doesnt get a break.

I have an 1835 I had in a bug that didnt run hot at all, beat the hell out of it. Now in my bus (with some upgrades actually) it runs way way too hot. I dont have any gauges, but the whole back of the bus is hot. It doesnt diesel or anything, always starts, oil light doesnt come on at idle, just really hot.

I have:
Holes between top and bottom sealed.
Thing shroud.
Good engine seal.
Right fan.
Stock 'cool tins', not the t3 ones, right ones.
Good seal between 'house' and cooler.
Timing at about 28 degrees, it runs harder advances more but i have it back a little.
Carbs adjusted and jetted in the ballpark.
Low (stockish) compression. Stock cam.
I dont (really) abuse it, but do cruise at 75 for short runs.
Full of oil (10/40 usually).
Belt is adjusted right.
Decklid seal, etc.
No 'hoover bit'.

Im going to:
Change p&c's out to 90.5'ss (i have em), its an 1835 now. Tired p&c's.
Add bottom deflectors from berg (when you dont have heater box ones)
Add cooling flaps, probably wired in open position to cool heads.
Double check everywhere air could be in/out.
Any other recommendations?

I dont see these helping the overall pictures, I'll drive it till it blows. But it might buy me some time. Were I able to do it all again, I'd just tear the case apart and full flow it and add a cooler. That would buy some piece of mind at least. But not happening.

My bus has a straightaxle 4.12 with 16's and somewhat meaty tires on the back. On the highway it shouldnt be struggling at all although it is a pretty heavy westy. No hills here. Just HOT!

Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:25 am

are you running a external oil cooler?

Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:19 am

Do a full tune up, check your timing, etc. and most of all check your fuel mixture a lean mix might cause this and might not be as evident in a beetle. As Andrew stated a bus is much heaver and the engine compartment has a different air flow and is less forgiving than a Beetle's. An external Oil cooler would help as well with an extra sump.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:53 am

A couple of mentions on the bus overheating:
First off, the front end of a bus is aerodynamic the way a billboard is aerodynamic; you're pushing a lot of air so the engine is working harder.
Gene Berg found that something as seemingly insignificant as opening a window in a bus would affect airflow and therefore the engine temperature.

The wonderful thing about synthetic oil is that it RESISTS heat, which is why it's great for water cooled engines but not for air cooled which rely on the oil to soak up heat. And that's why your oil temp will be low on the gauge with synthetic oil, making you think the engine is cool as well. Not!

Finally, I know this sounds counterintuitive, but just as with my bugs, if I prop the engine lid open a couple of inches on my bus on hot southern California summer days, the engine runs much cooler. I do this on 3 bugs and 2 buses, some with stock engines, some with high performance, and it works on all of them.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:10 am

full flo it with a 96 pass mesa oilcooler W/ a fan. It will cool your motor way down. Go with AN fittings stainless lines, it will help with leaks. heat is the killer on bigger motors! P.S. if your bus is slammed, don't run a stump :lol: ouch!!!

Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:50 am

the first thing i would do is seal EVERTHING in the engine compartment. every air leak decreases the positive pressure that you need to help suck in cool air through the vents. i see in the pic that the engine lid seal is missing, that's bad. if you motor runs hot now then it's going to cook during the summer.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:05 am

First of all Buses are more aerodynamic than a Bug so that souldn`t be an issue. Keep the compression around 8 to 1, full flow it with a big extra cooler and a fan, No extra holes in your tin, mild cam and not too much timing and you should be fine.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:49 am

In addition to the good advice and resulting corrections, you might want to try:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=174252&highlight=356+pulley

Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:31 am

Slowlow wrote:

Your Bus is too dang low and the hot air can't escape in the space provided! Pull the bumper for a day and see if things improve.

Seriously, get all your stuff right (seal, holes in tin) and get a CHT gauge on it, then call us back.

What is your gearing? I presume straight axle here.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:14 am

Living in Phoenix with 117deg summers I run full flowed deep sump motors with a cooler.

Just cant go as low in the rear with the sump as Bubba mentioned.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:24 am

Bryan67 wrote: First of all Buses are more aerodynamic than a Bug so that shouldn't be an issue.

...what?

Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:50 am

Andrew wrote: Bryan67 wrote: First of all Buses are more aerodynamic than a Bug so that shouldn't be an issue.

...what?
...what, what???
This goes against all scientific principle to date, do you know something that science does not?

Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:55 am

Andrew wrote:
IMO, though, welding up the apron and doing the new engine seal is definitely a good idea. Every little bit helps, right?

Definatley.. its #1 on my list and I will be doing it very shortly... :D

v8fiero wrote: are you running a external oil cooler?
No... Just the oil pump cover with a oil filter, besides that its stock oil system.

doc hopper wrote: I prop the engine lid open a couple of inches on my bus on hot southern California summer days, the engine runs much cooler.

I WILL agree with that. Sometimes on trips to NC shows I will pop my lid and it pretty much swings in the wind.... and it really seemed like the engine was cooler.

bubba wrote: P.S. if your bus is slammed, don't run a stump :lol: ouch!!!
Haha, DEF. not. I would like to full flow it though... maybe in the future.

melville wrote:
Your Bus is too dang low and the hot air can't escape in the space provided!

what is your gearing? I presume straight axle here.

Even though I would fight to the death saying there is no such thing as too low, I will agree with you here too. Just from experience I know that a lower VW runs a little hotter than a stock height one... like you said. VW didnt design the cooling for slammed VW's :lol:

Im running a 68 beetle transmission... I believe that would be a 4:12 ... with 205/55 15's.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:56 am

Oh, and thanks for all the advice so far guys!

Im going to get a new engine seal, decklid seal and weld up my breastplate to see how it helps.