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Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:36 pm

Pretty sure it's Titan Red Metallic not Titian Red. The code is LB3V.
From http://www.gti16v.com/vwcolors.htm

My '89 GL is this color with the black fiberglass bumpers.

Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:33 am

dobryan wrote: psych-illogical wrote:
I assume, when you mention coming up with some sort of a stop, that it would be a stop on the window opening so you don't whack your sliding door into the opened panes?

Exactly. I still have on my 'to do' list the addition of a stop of some sort so I can't open the window too far and cream it with the slider. I've been careful so far and have had no crunches, but it is only a matter of time so I better get off my keister and make the stop.

I appreciate the post... this is one of the things I'm planning on doing for my Wolfsburg, only I've got the "luxury" of no rear cabinet so I can put the Jalousie on the driver's side. Maybe I'll consider a second for the right side, but I already have a spare left over from the '73 Weekender I sold a couple years ago.

WRT a stop; you would know better than I since you've had one of these things apart, but it looks like it would be a simple matter of driving a self-drilling screw into the side frame member to limit how far the mechanism can slide. Maybe it would need a washer or two under it, but it seems that the sliding mechanism sits flush with the frame member so even a screw head would prevent it from sliding.

I also have a question about that back panel section you've installed. You imply that the glass begins to curve toward the back... is that correct? Mine is an '88 with the plastic vent at the back of the window... I wonder if this already replaces the curved section. The fact that the leading edge of the vent is not perpendicular to the bottom/top of the window means I've still got to make a small panel section, but the vent should help with the transition.

Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:15 am

Volksaholic wrote:
I also have a question about that back panel section you've installed. You imply that the glass begins to curve toward the back... is that correct? Mine is an '88 with the plastic vent at the back of the window... I wonder if this already replaces the curved section. The fact that the leading edge of the vent is not perpendicular to the bottom/top of the window means I've still got to make a small panel section, but the vent should help with the transition.

You are correct about the glass curving. You'll need a transition panel for any area not at right angles to the window frame. I made my jalousie window about one inch shorter than I could have since I was a little too chicken to push it right to the limit on size (if I fubared the dimension I didn't have another one to modify). If you keep the vent your transition piece will be much smaller than mine. Even the window over the sink area needs a transition piece (refer to the diagrams in the write-up), all you are doing is modifying the dimensions of the piece to fit what you have to work with.

Your idea about a screw for a stop may work. I'll consider that when I get a round toit. :D

Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:20 am

Wow...this is an incredibly clean and useful mod. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a cheep set. I've always thought VW screwed up when they discontinued these windows. I'm not so hot on the rear one but I'd LOVE to have one over my stove and in the slide door. Super right up Dobryan. I'm exited to get a set in my Westy :wink:

Dubs

Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:57 pm

great, another addition to my (endless) list of "syncro" projects! i'm sure i want to do both back windows and the front side window, but i'm not so sure about the sliding door. i don't suppose anyone is selling vanagon modified jalousie windows?

r

Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:18 pm

As Larry Blazer said to me when we discussed installing Jalousies into Winston, 'Make sure you get a good set before you do it.'

You can hook up with some jalousies at a good price from salvage yards such as bustedbus.com, and find them here on the Samba when one of the Bay folks decides his are too noisy--because, says Chris of BustedBus, he never replaced the seals--but then you'll need to replace the seals--clean up the mechanism--do some sawing...

It's all DO-able, but I don't think anybody's offering a rebuilding service even for the Bays. We want that, and modifications, and I figured that if I ever DO want more air in the back (I don't sleep in the space between the slider and central windows!), I'm going to have to do it myself.

So, as soon as this cold recedes... I'll do it!

Best!

Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:19 pm

lovedavdubs wrote: Wow...this is an incredibly clean and useful mod. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a cheep set. I've always thought VW screwed up when they discontinued these windows. I'm not so hot on the rear one but I'd LOVE to have one over my stove and in the slide door.
If you only want to do the one over your stove, that's the easiest installation of them all. It's almost the right size already. On the newer Vanagons I think you need to shorten the one in the door. My experience with Jalousies in Bays leads me to believe that the ones in the door start to rattle apart sooner than the driver's side windows. That doesn't seem to be as big a problem with Jalousies in Splitties... probably because they have the swinging side doors.

Since we've got the Weekender it can get really stuffy in the bed area. I'm looking forward to setting up some cross ventilation by the bed.

Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:31 pm

dobryan wrote:

Just as a side note, where did you happen to get that black seal around the inside of the window?

Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:50 pm

Malokin Martin wrote: dobryan wrote:

Just as a side note, where did you happen to get that black seal around the inside of the window?

Also, is it possible to install the passenger side window on the drivers side so the knob is in the front? It was always a pain in the ass to have to pull over and climb in the back to open them in my 76 Westy.

Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:04 pm

Malokin Martin wrote: Just as a side note, where did you happen to get that black seal around the inside of the window?
That black seal is the window gasket. This jalousie installs using the stock window gasket. They are not screwed into the bus body like the bay window buses were.

lovedavdubs wrote: Also, is it possible to install the passenger side window on the drivers side so the knob is in the front? It was always a pain in the ass to have to pull over and climb in the back to open them in my 76 Westy.
I couldn't see an easy way to swap the knob from one side to the other. I did look at that issue and gave up on the attempt. But maybe someone else will figure it out.

Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:16 pm

All right, Tuesday I started in earnest...

I had put some Kroil, which is a very good penetrating oil, on all the screws of the set (= two 'jalousie' windows, from a single Bay), and so Tuesday mission 1 was to remove essentially ALL of them.

I'd bought more of the 3/8" wood screws from a company called AAA Metric in Denver, I'd hoped for stainless, but, no luck. I didn't have too much trouble getting out the screws, except for one, which defied the screw bit, the screw extractor, and finally had to be taken out by cutting a notch across what was left of the crown with the Dremel and using a conventional screwdriver to remove it.

I didn't break any of the glass removing the 'subframes' of the three panels, I can see how Dobrayan cut them all down, the ends are done in a funny way, but not one that a good person with a table saw couldn't duplicate. There's a gunky putty over some of the small frames where the glass was put in.

I took the Dremel and a diamond/ceramic grinding disk and ground off all the rivets on the pivot clips and the lifting arms, then I used the Dremel's 'abrasive disks' to clean the fuzz of oxidation off those parts. It worked quite well, later, I put them into a tumbler to get the parts the abrasive disk couldn't reach and that worked pretty well, too. I also used a steel brush on a few small areas, but not on the aluminum. I want all moving parts to be absolutely smooth again, so that the windows will open and close easily.

Ratwell's picture of 25 years worth of corrosion applied to my stuff... I tried something he didn't, which was to lay all the aluminum sections, once I'd removed the remnants of the seals, in the street and hose them down with phosphoric acid rust remover/concrete etch. Wear gloves and a shop apron and something over your eyes. It foamed up into sort of a soapy gunk that I cleaned off in the sink, and then polished up the aluminum with a 3M abrasive cleaning pad and Bon Ami. Results were quite good!

I did some more touching up with the Dremel and also with OOO steel wool, which does a lot better job of cleaning and shining if you put some oil on the aluminum as you go. I'll do some more dremeling after the next step.

To remove the putty I'm going to paint the aluminum with Jasco Paste Adhesive Remover, NASTY stuff, but even old solid glue doesn't have a chance against it. Then I'll really put a shine on the aluminum outer frame and the window frames, and paint it all with clear Acrylic lacquer before I put it all back together. It was tempting just to take the disassembled pieces down to have them soda-blasted, or sand-blasted, but I was curious to see how well it would go with just me. I don't know how much that will cost.

Ratwell didn't remove his winders from the sides of his windows, I did so I could clean behind them and because all the rivets were so badly rusted. I'll need to rivet them all back together. I did save the original rivets, they appear to be 5/32" in diameter and as long as .4", I'll try to find a place that will sell me a small quantity of that diameter in stainless steel or nickel plate. I think I'll need two different lengths.

I did find stainless steel 3/8" pop, or blind rivets, I could just drill out the holes a little, others have done that. The winders and the slider assembly will have to pivot, I'm thinking of notching the blade of a cheap putty knife and using it as a spacer when I rivet. I can oil the blade and yank it free after each rivet.

I bought a 1/2" carbide flush trim router bit, that'll be for the frames to smooth them after we saw off the old Bay 'Y' part of the extrusions, and I have to find two 1/16" thick 8x43" sheets of aluminum to make the new 'frames' for the windows, although for dobryan's 'pane' installation on the passenger's side back I probably won't need it all. The rod can be cut and notched, that won't be hard once the tungsten table saw blade I've ordered gets here. I'm not sure what to use to lubricate that when we're cutting the frames and the parts for the 'extensions' on the frames.

So, well along... Final polishing of the aluminum, reassembly, and the minor matter of the seals... I've been wondering if there's a lubricant that would harden into a sealant to use in guiding all those fine little pieces of rubber into all those narrow slits in the aluminum.

Further bulletins as events warrant.

Best!

Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:28 am

msinabottle wrote: I'd bought more of the 3/8" wood screws from a company called AAA Metric in Denver, I'd hoped for stainless, but, no luck. I didn't have too much trouble getting out the screws, except for one, which defied the screw bit, the screw extractor, and finally had to be taken out by cutting a notch across what was left of the crown with the Dremel and using a conventional screwdriver to remove it.
I wonder if aluminum screws would be available. Almost all the parts of those Jalousies are aluminum, aren't they?
Quote: I did save the original rivets, they appear to be 5/32" in diameter and as long as .4", I'll try to find a place that will sell me a small quantity of that diameter in stainless steel or nickel plate. I think I'll need two different lengths.

I did find stainless steel 3/8" pop, or blind rivets, I could just drill out the holes a little, others have done that. The winders and the slider assembly will have to pivot, I'm thinking of notching the blade of a cheap putty knife and using it as a spacer when I rivet. I can oil the blade and yank it free after each rivet.
One thing that might work to allow the riveted sections to pivot would be to insert a thin nylon washer or a combination of nylon and metal washers between the rivet and the work. I like those nylon washers and spacers for parts that have to move but aren't high speed and don't go through thousands of revolutions.
Quote: The rod can be cut and notched, that won't be hard once the tungsten table saw blade I've ordered gets here. I'm not sure what to use to lubricate that when we're cutting the frames and the parts for the 'extensions' on the frames.
Are the rods aluminum? I don't use a lubricant when cutting aluminum on my woodworking tools, but the blades I like for cutting aluminum are either a 0º or negative rake, as opposed to a positive rake "hook" on a woodworking blade.

Looks like you've made good progress... congrats and thanks for sharing.

Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:28 am

one 'should' be able to mount the passanger jalousie ont he driver side and vice versa.. which would move the location for/aft of the winder knobs in relation

this is a project I plan on doing for ALL of the campers in my family.
VW dropped the aluminum mobile home awning windows with the new vanagon models to 'modernize' the sleeker new camper. a functional step backwards.. as many styles often do.

dobryan wrote:
lovedavdubs wrote: Also, is it possible to install the passenger side window on the drivers side so the knob is in the front? It was always a pain in the ass to have to pull over and climb in the back to open them in my 76 Westy.
I couldn't see an easy way to swap the knob from one side to the other. I did look at that issue and gave up on the attempt. But maybe someone else will figure it out.

Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:03 pm

I may be remembering wrong, or maybe it's a function of only having owned one '73 Bay window bus with Jalousies, but I thought the knobs were all on the same side; the left side of the window if you're looking at the inside. That would always put the knob toward the rear of the van for the window on the left side and toward the front for the window on the right. Is that not the case?

Ideally it would be nice to have one on each side so you could crank the windows open or shut from the driver's seat and you wouldn't have to get out of bed to do the same from the back.

Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:41 pm

Thank you all for the input! I did a bit more polishing tonight, got the edges of the frames and the winders polished a bit more.

Quote: I wonder if aluminum screws would be available. Almost all the parts of those Jalousies are aluminum, aren't they?

I think you'd want steel, for the strength, though. I think I'll put some kind of corrosion proofer on the screws, at the least, that Mercury Corrosion Prevntative, basically WaxOyl.

Quote:
One thing that might work to allow the riveted sections to pivot would be to insert a thin nylon washer or a combination of nylon and metal washers between the rivet and the work. I like those nylon washers and spacers for parts that have to move but aren't high speed and don't go through thousands of revolutions.

It's an interesting thought--the nylon wouldn't bind? Hehr, who made the Jalousies (Ach! Meinische gutte Deutschischer Jalousies im Long Beach California gemacht werden!) got away with just the rivets, which were rusted, but holding, after 25 years. A helpful fellow on the Splitty forum used a notched 'sample' credit card for his spacer, I like the putty knife idea.

Quote: Are the rods aluminum? I don't use a lubricant when cutting aluminum on my woodworking tools, but the blades I like for cutting aluminum are either a 0º or negative rake, as opposed to a positive rake "hook" on a woodworking blade.

There's just the one, big heavy rod, and that, I'm quite sure, is steel or at least a ferrous alloy. I did the best to clean the gunk off that tonight with oil and steel wool. I've read that you're supposed to use lubricant cutting metal, but none of what I'll be cutting is more than 1/16" thick.

Ongoing...

Best!

Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:55 pm

I checked my window... you're right that the rod is steel, and I see where the steel corner screws are you're referring to.

Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:49 pm

ok I just went out and checked my 'jalousie stash' I only have 1 that would put the winder in the back when installed on the DS. and thats pretty bad odds. 1 in ##.. if you wanted to have the winder int he back.

and both jalousies on my 72 are from in facing out, winder on the right..
it's as oem as i've seen.

soo I do not know how many winders on the left from inside facing out, you would find.. (as pictured above too.. )

question on Jalousie parts. has anyone sourced replacements for the winder section.. the internal gear strips over the years of previous owners and children.

I plan on putting the jalousie over the kitchen on all of the vanagon westfalias in my family, and on the back pass window on all I drive/own personally.

Best, Dan

Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:34 pm

danfromsyr wrote: and both jalousies on my 72 are from in facing out, winder on the right..
it's as oem as i've seen.

Mine is a spare that came with my '73. When I was checking it earlier this evening I noticed it also has the winder on the right. Maybe the changed them in the later bays? I'm pretty sure my '73 had them both on the same side... I don't think I was able to reach both winder knobs from the driver's seat. I was thinking the slider was the one I could reach but it must have been the one behind the driver's seat.

Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:00 pm

I don't think it would be too hard to remove and reverse that mechanism, if it came to it--you'd have to drill and perhaps put the gear assembly upside down...

I FOUND 5/32" stainless steel rivets at a very good localy hardware store today, $.65 each! I also found 3/16 mylar washers that might do the trick to help the rivets work as pivots. I need to experiment and see if I should still use a spacer. The Jasco Paste Adhesive remover got some of the remaining gunk off the window frames, the Dremel with the carbon wire brush and the abrasive disks got the rest of it. I think the next step is to use the Mother's Rim Polish, then reassemble 'em empty and spray them with acrylic lacquer.

I'm thinking of using Baby Oil or Cornhusker's Lotion to lubricate the seals as I slide 'em in. I can rebuild the louvers while I wait for my buddy with the table saw to have the chance to slice off the Y moldings. Had a horrible time finding a 1/16" Aluminum sheet... But, huzzah, I did find 1 1/2" bar aluminum in 1/16" thick eight foot lengths. Those should work very handily for my sides.

Final polish and lacquering tomorrow, I think. Also dropped in to a body shop that had treated me well and talked to them about welding or gluing new metal onto Winston. They were agreeable.

Best!

Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:19 pm

Sounds like everything is going well... Good job. :D