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Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:21 pm

Ok I see...
You need to make some tin and install it. Also change your shroud to a 74 or so doghouse type if you can. Your motor overheats because your carbs and cooling system inhale all the hot air from the motor.

Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:26 pm

hows this.
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Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:37 pm

ok this is an older photo.
I have tin from the rear of the car to just forward of the cylinders.
closing to the gas tank is going to be difficult.

I have an oil cooler in the nose of the car with a fan.
so why the 74 doghouse shroud? will it make any difference since the cooler isn't in there?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:45 pm

If I was you I would get all the tin and install it.Then use some sheetmetal and fill in the openings.
The doghouse shroud does a much better job of directing the air to the cylinders.

Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:35 pm

Check out some of the German Look club and dealer sites, for info on those who drive with Porsche fan systems:

http://www.germanlook.com/#

http://www.customspeedparts.de/content/en/technic/tuning_stil_german_look.php

http://www.ismi.net/riecherttuning/coolingt4.htm

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:38 am

If you already have an oil cooler in the nose with a fan, it would have been helpful to give us a that information earlier.

Is your oil setup thermostatically controlled? Any way if it is thermostatically controlled it should not hurt to run the stock cooler in addition to your external unit, (hope you also added an oil filter to your setup)

As Jimmy111 said, the first thing is to isolate the hot (used) cooling air from recycling into the cooling fan again and again... As well as all the air that is being hated up by being in contact with the hot exhaust...

The only way I do that is to replicate the sealed upper half of the motor form the bottom half you find in a VW setup(you will have to do a very good job of it), conceptually, think of it as if you had to make it water tight no leaks from top side to bottom except through the cooling fan intake.

You may also want to invest in an F/A meter as the correct F/A somewhere between 10:1 to 12:1 F/A will do a lot to keep your motor running smoothly & cool and make the most power. PS innless your are an ACE mechanic this is the best thing you can ever do to get your car running right! (But don't forget to time it correctly)

The SM-AFR/DM-5 is a true plug and play digital wide band air/fuel ratio monitor.

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1673 $ 262.95

In addition, I would HIGHLY recommend a Dakota Digital head temperature gauge and an oil temperature gauge too!

ALSO Check out Jimmy111, article on the correct way to make your oil system work if you are using an HD oil pump!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=280293&highlight=jimmy111

I agree with Jimmy111, that a 74 VW cooling shroud would be much better cooling than your current setup or a 911 style cooler, most likely the only better alternative to a stock Dog House VW fan shroud is a DTM if it is in your budget. However all in all no cooling shroud will help you much until you figure out how to isolate the exhaust heat (from shroud and exhaust system) from re-circulating into your fan shroud.

The air cooled in the VW air-cooled stands for Fan shroud Air and incoming combustion Air & Fuel, on top of that the oil also plays a part as air is used to cool that too!

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:52 am

lionhart.

I have a switch on the dash to start the fan.
i have a thremal sensor in the (type 3) oil block off plate
and according to my original water gauge, im never over 190 degrees oil temp.

I do have the oil filter/pump system on my motor.

I don't wan't to sound dense but....
if it is possiable to source fresh air to the cooling fan (and the carbs)
is sealing the engine bay no longer important?
( back to the porche style system)

Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:16 am

rearenddude wrote: I don't wan't to sound dense but....
if it is possiable to source fresh air to the cooling fan (and the carbs)
is sealing the engine bay no longer important?
( back to the porche style system)

If you can do it that way it will work. That's what VW did with the Type 3 and 411/12 wagons. Cooling air most important, cool air to carbs a secondary concern. What's above the gas tank? Can you vent there direct to the fan entry?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:22 am

Yes you can pull the air thru. But you will need to make all new parts to do the job and it will get expencive. In the mid 80's I made a pull thru kit modeled from the porshe setup and it cooled great. But everything is special and you cant just buy the parts. I only had 3 sales because it did not look cool. The fan needed to be ducted out the back of the engine cover and no one liked that Idea.

Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:45 pm

Ok, what you are suggesting, definitely can work, as melville said it was done for T3's & 411's still DTM or VW dog house from the back will be better, it would be hard to make a ducting system to work just around the fan belt and intake... compared to the back of the others; plus the 911 style coolers are mostly JUNK! Looking cool is not the same as having a cool and reliable motor!

RE:
I have a switch on the dash to start the fan. (that works, you could also autmate it so you can enjoy the convertible instead keeping you eye on oil temp and turning it on and off to keep the oil at the optimum temp)

RE:
i have a thremal sensor in the (type 3) oil block off plate (not the best palace for it from what I understand)

RE:
and according to my original water gauge, im never over 190 degrees oil temp. (How can you tell if the gauge is accurate and appropriate for the use?)

From your post I am amusing you are having overheating problem, it might be helpful to look at Jimmy111 post about HD pumps, perhaps you are not getting cool oil to your motor because of the added peruse not being compatible with your oil relief system. In addition, if you add a CYL temperature and an AF meter to make sure your F/A is correct it should go a long way to getting you to know how hot your engine is REALLY getting with correct F/A ratio.

Good luck on your project, (PS if you spring for a DTM now you will be able to use it later if you decide to go with a more powerful motor later and still keep your modifications useful)

Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:00 pm

lionhart,

the manual switch is not that distracting. im not aginst a thermal unit, but this was not high on my conversion list at the time.

i don't know if the fiat water gage is actually 190 when it is indicated. however I have tested them enough to know that they are consistant.
so maybe 190 is +/- 10 in actuallity.
PS where would you concider placing the temp sensor?

most of my driving is of short duration.
I don't know if I have a heat issue for sure.
last drive the car ran like crap, upon investigation I found the left side carb lost its secondary venturi. (didn't notice the previous running)
I also found a small blob of melted aluminum on the butterfly.

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:44 pm

Just an FYI, you ca get better results on your searches if you include "AND" as what yielded the link below:

Oil AND sensor AND Location
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=271292&highlight=oil+sensor+location

From my understanding it should go where the oil going to the bearings is moving over it not in a somewhat stagnant corner... See URL Above for answers.

All I can say about most cars running like crap is 70% F/A fuel issue 20% ignition timing/spark issue. You wont be sorry spending the money on F/A meter, I cant even imagine how many hours I have spent trying to get poorly jetted carbs running right, as I mention previously unless you are a naturally gifted mechanic (1 in 10,000) there is little chance you can tune your carbs correctly and eliminate the major cause for an engine not doing what is can/should at idle, mid RPM and WOT.

If your motor got hot enough to melt aluminum on your I'm pretty sure your car would have caught on fire, lead yes Alu not likely...

My advice is to spend a little cache and get a complete Oil, a CYL Temp and AF meter and do some additional testing to see what is going on with your motor, you cant go wrong having the information they will provide to get you moving on the right direction...

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:03 pm

Just an additional thought about the dual crabs on your motor; the item below is almost indispensable to get them to run well, maybe the pour running is that your carbs are badly out of sync, very common …

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D7125

PS you may already know all this but I do not remember you posting your expertise level with ACV, so just in case I thought I would mention it.