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Mon May 19, 2008 6:09 pm

Not sure what it would be called but i thought i saw one here.
that is a cage that is bent and tight to and welded into the body of a bug.

I'm thinking of my next project ( current one aint done but the engine is coming)

I thought that if a cage was welded into the body or unified with it thus reinforcing what already seems to be a strong body. I might be able to get by with a smaller cage material but more importantly gain more room at the legs and head. Right now my cage is pretty tight in the body but still i see myself banging my head and legs against it in an accident.

Also if welded into th body or against it like i'm saying i could upholster over it and would look really clean and maybe have some padding.

any body done or seen such a thing

not the outside cage thing.

Mon May 19, 2008 6:56 pm

chec k out my project..... im running the cage the thickness of a quarter away fromt most parts of the car ie dash.... i plan on welding to the body in its strong areas to make sure its all one piece.

ive just started on the cage but im sure it will give you the idea.

Mon May 19, 2008 8:14 pm

this is what i did to mine.

Mon May 19, 2008 8:15 pm

Mon May 19, 2008 11:41 pm

ive never been a believer in it, it basically makes it so that your body and cage are one piece and that basically means if anything happens your stuck.

ideally you need to build your cage into the frame and tie everything into it and make it basically function independently of the body, you body needs to be what gives the bug looks.

if anything i would make it so that your cage bolts into the body in various places to make sure its nice and snug.

Tue May 20, 2008 7:25 am

runslikeapenguin wrote: ive never been a believer in it, it basically makes it so that your body and cage are one piece and that basically means if anything happens your stuck.

ideally you need to build your cage into the frame and tie everything into it and make it basically function independently of the body, you body needs to be what gives the bug looks.

if anything i would make it so that your cage bolts into the body in various places to make sure its nice and snug.

Not sure what you mean by "if anything happens your stuck"?

And what I'm talking about doesnt change the outside "look" of the bug at all and makes the interior possible look more stock and provide more interior space.

Bajahucks that is kind of what i'm talking about but i'm thinking a whole lot tighter to the body but using flat metal webbing like you did to make it contour with the body and for the most part not even see the cage.

I'm seeing it being a LOT of work but i like the idea of more space inside and a "cleaner" interior. May not be any advantage on a full out racing vehicle but i'm just a weekender and I want looks and comfort along with a little extra strength in an accident. I dont wear a helmet when i'm driving my baja and i got think bangin your head on a roll bar gotta hurt and seems unavoidable even with typical tight cage (like i have)

Tue May 20, 2008 9:00 am

The proper way is to tie the cage into every piece of the car that you can. If the cage is done right you will not get the body off anyways without cutting it off. If your not tied into the car right, the body and pan will move independently and things such as your rear shock mounts will move, i.e. shock mount points getting longer than the shocks are, etc. The pics of the cage tied into the A pillars is correct. If you are building the car for offroad, then thats what you have to do. If you want the offroad look for your street baja then get one of those "show" cages, stay on the pavement and it will be o.k. I know someone is going to say they buit a cage and "beat it up really good", but that is the right way......You wnat to limit flex as much as possible. Good job!

Tue May 20, 2008 10:27 am

dirtkeeper wrote: runslikeapenguin wrote: ive never been a believer in it, it basically makes it so that your body and cage are one piece and that basically means if anything happens your stuck.

ideally you need to build your cage into the frame and tie everything into it and make it basically function independently of the body, you body needs to be what gives the bug looks.

if anything i would make it so that your cage bolts into the body in various places to make sure its nice and snug.

Not sure what you mean by "if anything happens your stuck"?

And what I'm talking about doesnt change the outside "look" of the bug at all and makes the interior possible look more stock and provide more interior space.

Bajahucks that is kind of what i'm talking about but i'm thinking a whole lot tighter to the body but using flat metal webbing like you did to make it contour with the body and for the most part not even see the cage.

I'm seeing it being a LOT of work but i like the idea of more space inside and a "cleaner" interior. May not be any advantage on a full out racing vehicle but i'm just a weekender and I want looks and comfort along with a little extra strength in an accident. I dont wear a helmet when i'm driving my baja and i got think bangin your head on a roll bar gotta hurt and seems unavoidable even with typical tight cage (like i have)

i mean if you roll it, get into an accident, break part of the cage from some knarley jump or something. if you just install a normal chenowith cage and dont tie it in you can always just cut the firewalls out and get the body off but other wise your screwed. like ricosuave what if that happens to you? you normally dont tie the roll cage into the body of a car that has a frame, you only do this with uni-body cars.

if your thinking about just installing those plates between the window posts and the cage, and the heater channels and the cage go ahead those would be able to be cut out easily. my thought is why dont you just make two plates at all those points that bolt together, it would give you that tight body and cage fit. i assume your doing this to just make the car not sound like your off roading in an a fully stocked RV right?

Tue May 20, 2008 12:48 pm

I have personaly had a Class 5 Race car that I could take the body on, and off without a problem. I think that its very important to be able to do that as far race prep. My thing as in many of my posts is "SAFETY" We use certain size, and wall thickness tubing for a reason. There are rules in race organizations for the same safety principles. Even if you do not intend to race the car its VERY important that you build the cage with the proper size, and thickness tubing. There are also many other things to a cage than the tubing, but dont scrimp on the cage material to get more room for comfort. Tieing the cage into the body wont strengthen your cage enough to go down in size with tubing in my opinion. Make sure that you check out SCORE .com, or other organizations, They offer cage diagrams, and tubing sizing charts for you. Make sure that you make your car safe for you, and your passengers, and most of all have fun.

Tue May 20, 2008 12:51 pm

My thoughts too Penguin. . .If you tie the whole cage into the body, and the trans mounts I would think that you would have more rattles, and vibration than I would be able to stand. . .A girlfriend, or wife might like it for a while anyways. . . . :lol:

Tue May 20, 2008 12:56 pm

lostyzf wrote: My thoughts too Penguin. . .If you tie the whole cage into the body, and the trans mounts I would think that you would have more rattles, and vibration than I would be able to stand. . .A girlfriend, or wife might like it for a while anyways. . . . :lol:

true one more reason not to do it, some people cant even stand solid mounts turning your car into a uni-body essentially would make things alot worse.

and for the record i cant believe you went there :lol:

Tue May 20, 2008 1:33 pm

I will be tie plating the cage on my car to cut down on rattles.

Sure you may get some vibration noise thought the chassis with all solid mounts and such... but if the cage fits tight enough and you don't tie the cage to the body, it sounds like you have a metal bucket with a handfull of nuts and bolts bouncing down the road.

As far as removing the body... the sheetmetal plates connecting the body are not exactly permenant. Its just metal..... plasma cutter (wish i had one :D ), 3" cutoff wheel, sawzawll... etc...

If they are built correctly, they will not be difficult to remove anyway....

Now, on a 5 car that comes apart 10 time a year, I completely understand the need to have a body that can be removed in a half an hour... but on a playcar or prerunner... its not a big deal (to me anyway) if it takes an extra 2-3hours to cut the plates should I ruin the body.

I'll take a little mechanical vibration noise over metal on metal clanking anyday.

Plus... its just another place to use my new dimple die set.... :roll:

Tue May 20, 2008 3:30 pm

very good point motorbreath. thats one of the reasons i did it also. i had the same cage in a other bug i had and it made so much noise. then i crashed it so that solved.

Tue May 20, 2008 5:38 pm

good replies

i'm definitely not building a race car

I think for the most part the standard body is nearly strong enough on its own for my kind of driving which worst case would probably be a slow rollover or accident on the street .but i do have a rag top sunroof (not convertible) and i think it deserves a little extra strength. As far as Noise ...that never even occurred to me .my current cage is quit. I really aiming at two things or maybe just one

Add some strength to existing bug body for a little more safety

I want a little more space in the cab and would like to upholster over the cage. Right now i have about 2-3 inches clearance from my head to my cage and about the same at my leg. By doing this unicage thing i think i can get 4-5 inches away from me and then i can put a little padding on it and would feel like i'm not gonna bang into over a big bump.

I Like all the comments . I recall seeing a real tight job here on the samba and hoping that picture surfaces again.

Tue May 20, 2008 8:19 pm

If you are going to offroad and you dont tie to the horns then you will be dragging the engine when the horns bend.

Tue May 20, 2008 9:11 pm

blitzschnell racing wrote: If you are going to offroad and you dont tie to the horns then you will be dragging the engine when the horns bend.

i will be doing that cause i noticed during the rebuild i found a crack in one of the horn thanks

Tue May 20, 2008 9:27 pm

I know on my 5/1600 the cage is tight to the body inside. Almost like there is no cage in the way as far as the front two passengers are concerned. King Dave buit the cage in the car and in several spots he beat the body with a sledge to make room, so the cage would fit tight. Off roading and racing are two different animals. My 5 and 11 are both tied in many ways, and welded not bolted. Both my front ends are welded into the cars also. Another thing to think about is if the cage is anywhere near your head and you don't wear a helmet, you could nock yourself pretty good, so padding the roll cage might be something to think about. I dont think too many 5/1600 racers take their body off the car on a regular basis, just raced the Mint 400 and the 5 in front of us in the tech line was the one from the Dust to Glory video that rolled, they had to cut the body off the car and piece a new one on. Not sure why you would remove it unless it was damaged? On neither one of my cars could you remove the body without cutting, and the 5/1600 was built by King Dave, so I know for a fact its built right. lostyzf where did you race your 5? If you did race 5/1600 then you certainly know Dave. And the reason to tie the cage into the body is to stiffen the body, you will flex less and in theory less rattling, a chenowyth cage mounts to the floor pan and the torsion housing.

Wed May 21, 2008 7:09 pm

With our cars that we have had both full drag cars, and our off road race, or fun cars we have always preped the cars with safety in mind. I'm not to sure what car you run, or how you choose to run it, but after each and every race I remove all the body pannels, and check the whole chasis for stress cracks, and fatigue signs on the tubing, or gussets that need may replacing. I'm not to sure how you can do that with the body ON??? Maybe its just me? I can't tell you how many times I have replaced tubes, or gussets after races. I'm anal about my personal safety again maybe thats just me. There are many ways to build, and maintain your rig. Just pic the one best suited for you, and do it on a regular basis. Best of luck!

Fri May 23, 2008 9:57 am

Remove the body after each race on a 5/1600? Never heard of that. Again where do you race this 5/1600 or is it now a 5 unlimited, if it is then it dosn't have a pan and a fiberglass body? SCORE, SNORE, MORE,BITD? Don't you know King Dave? I'm thinking you dont race a 5/1600 but rather have a "play car". No one removes the body off a 5/1600 each race, thats crazy (sand drag maybe, body panels on a 10, 12 or a 1/2 1600 ok). Sorry I dont believe you race (offroad), if you did you would not be removing the body. A race car is tied in way more than that, I dont know what racing your doing, but good luck with it too! Oh and by the way I am Co-driving with Eric Solorzano next week at the Baja 500, thats the type of racing I'm doing......

Fri May 23, 2008 1:19 pm

If you are consered about knee and your head hitting the cage you might want to do a 3" body lift. I'm 6'7" or so and just fit with out one and i don't have a cage yet. but believe me when I put one in I will have a body lift.