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Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:14 pm

I have been reading about using relays to aid in starting issues and was wonder if a horn relay from say, a 73 super would work as well as one from a ghia i just happen to have one from a super so i was wondering if It would work as well? thanks john

Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:23 pm

I don't believe you can substitute the relays. I just bought the Bosch relay kit for $19.95 + tax. It was about the easiest thing I've ever installed on a bug... And best of all it works! Over 100 degrees here today, hotter than the day it wouldn't start, and it turned right over.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=303916&highlight=

Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:25 pm

New starter is the best fix. I have no idea about the relay thing. I think it would need to be a starter relay to handle the amps. I think some people use a Ford relay.

-Winslow Haselwood
SAW Industries

Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:26 pm

I use Bosch 30 amp relays.

Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:28 pm

I suppose most of the boxtype auto parts places carry this kit? auto zone,advanced etc ? thanks

Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:29 pm

I buy the relay and wire them myself.

Easy as cake.

Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:30 pm

TRAVELER wrote: I suppose most of the boxtype auto parts places carry this kit? auto zone,advanced etc ? thanks

I looked around. In Arizona only the bug shops carry them. Allison Automotive in Prescott had them the cheapest. And Wolfsburg West has them for 19.95 I think as well.

Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:31 pm

Just installed a new bosch starter today low voltage coming from switch all grounds are clean good batt.

Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:34 pm

Glenn thats kinda what i was getting at i also have a couple of ford style solinoids that are new on hand but ididn`t know if i could use one and keep it under the seat. is the part number in the picture for just the relay or the kit? the thought of using a ford part in my bug kinda makes me feel unclean!!!! :lol: :lol:

Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:36 am

i read somewhere(hoover pages?) that the ford relay draws almost as much current as the stock solenoid. i think that bosch only draws a couple of amps

Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:56 am

Glenn wrote: I use Bosch 30 amp relays.

The solenoid draws 30 amps to pull in, (has to move the bendix), and 20 amps to hold.
On 12V cars, I use the #53 relay from a water cooled VW, or if I can find them, the glow plug relay from a diesel rabbit. The #53 is rated at 40 amps, and the diesel glow plug relay is rated at 50 amps.

Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:57 am

Glenn wrote: I use Bosch 30 amp relays.

According to that, the fuse seems to be in the wrong place. It's in the ground side of the relay's coil circuit. It will only function (blow open) if the relay coil becomes shorted; and it would have to short to less than 1 ohm. I would think that the fuse would be in the red wire, near the battery terminal. That way it can protet the wiring to the battery, the relay contacts and the wiring to the stater solenoid.

Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:59 am

It's on the red wire that runs to the battery. The wire on the fuse is black and there's a red butt connector that connects it to the red wire.

Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:22 am

Yeah, looking closely, I can see it (I've got a filter on my monitor that doesn't help too much). The fuse holder and the wire over it are both yellow. Still, I think I would have placed the fuse closer towards the source. :wink:

Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:23 am

ProWelder wrote:

Quote: New starter is the best fix. I have no idea about the relay thing. I think it would need to be a starter relay to handle the amps. I think some people use a Ford relay.

You can have a brand new starter and still have starting problems when the car gets hot. It is partly due to the design of the starter circuit in a VW. The hard start relay is to deal with wiring problems - either wire that has deteriorated or connections that are not good, not problems with the starter. You could try cleaning all of the connections in the starter circuit before installing a relay.

This article explains it all including the testing of the starter to see if it is the problem:

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wired_03_01/wired_03_01.htm

Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:31 am

i bought a ford hard start relay and works great. it only needs a small signal for it to work. my start wouldn;t even turn over until i connected.
here is a picture of it on my beetle...
it was very easy to install

Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:51 pm

thanks for all the info picked up a relay today my parts guy said the kit was on back order so now its just a matter of making up the wiring for it and checking out the differences in my wiring this bug is fi. so it has a 2 into one wire setup I will let you know as soon as i get to it thanks again! :bug_green:

Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:29 pm

As far as i can tell right now i have 2 red coming off of + post 1 lg 1 small and 2 red wires with a t coupling into one going out of drivers side under seat and out the fire wall is it correct to assum one is for fuel pump and one is for switch going into one lead? does that mean i should run a seperate lead to starter just for fuel pump? :?: :?:

Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:35 pm

Either way the relay is a band-aid fix to the real problem either starter or wiring.

-Winslow Haselwood
SAW Industries

Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:37 pm

Not sure I am following you.

The positive side of the battery has two wires - a large and a small?

Where are the two red wires with the T coupling?

Also, what year car? You have FI?