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Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:16 pm

I was reading a recent post in the "Mid-engine street buggy build" thread and came across a topic that I have been wondering about for a while but haven't seen discussed before. The topic is how difficult it is to see tail lights/brake lights in the bright sun. I have stock VW lights on the back of my buggy as does one of my running mates (Gary). While riding behind Gary I noticed that it is very difficult to see the brake lights or even the signal lights when the sun is shining on them. Needless to say, it makes me very nervious about getting run into from behind.

I know adding a third brake light will help, but what other ideas are there that would help the situation (if I wanted to continue to use stock lights and bulbs)? I've thought about lining the inside edges of the lens with black electrical tape to create a tunnel-like effect. I haven't tried it yet.

Here's a picture of my lights in bright sun. With the bright glare, you can see how someone might miss the brake or turn lights.

Thanks,
Bud

Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:01 pm

i think the visibility issue with the lights is the basic design. the entire lens is exposed to light/allowing light pass through. if you were to enclose the light so that only the face is visible it would probably "show" better. but other than that check the rearview before turning or right after a panic stop. be ready to get out of the way!!!!

Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:44 pm

I agree, they are hard to see in daylight. I added a set of blue dots on mine to help make them more visible, it helped a little but the turn signals are still hard to see. I think I'll be added a third brake light on the rear cage also.

Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:00 pm

I like the traditional look of the tailights on you buggy 1madmanx, really like your trunk, first rate.

I have seen lights that are "frenched" into the body, providing the tunnel effect you suggested creating with tape. Barring something that drastic or the choice of different lights, you might be stuck leaving yourself a quick out and a large rear view mirror. :shock:

Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:57 pm

Under certain conditions, an airport spot-light wouldn't even help.
I was delivering a customer vehicle last week, following a new Ford 500 (during mid-morning sun) and I was practically in their trunk before I saw the brake lights. :o

Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:19 am

I am the one who posted the issue about tail lights in the sun in the "Mid engine street buggy build" topic.
Quote: Just a note of caution on the tail lights. As you know I installed the same tail lights in my Manx. Today while stopped to make a left into my friends driveway from the main highway I was almost annhialated by a tandem transport truck doing 60mph.
The guy behind him stopped and said that they could not see my brake lights. We checked and all lights are working fine. The angle that the tail lights are is too steep. You cannot see them when the sun is reflecting off the lenses. I recommend that anyone using this setup put additional brake lights that are angled correctly to be seen in sunny conditions.

Anyone using the stock VW lights should not have this problem as they are mounted in the same position as they were on the donor car. When we made the choice to use Cadi lights and mount them sideways we forgot to take into account that the lenses are no longer perpendicular to the road surface. They point upwards, making them hard to see in the bright sun.

The solution was to add a LED third brake light from a Mazda 262 spoiler/wing. I mounted it under my wing.

Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:16 am

Ron Francis Wiring sells some high intensity 1157 and 1156 bulbs. I have them in mine and they do make a difference.

http://wire-works.com/lighting.php

DOUBLE FILAMENT BRITE BULB Buy - B-1077

STD GLOBE - STAGGERED LOCATING PINS
Use: Brake/Tail/Parking/Turn
Replaces: 1034, 1157, 2057
Auto Pts Candlepower: 32-3
Our Candlepower: 50-14

All our bulbs are specially designed by RON FRANCIS WIRING and are sold only by us and our dealers. They are not available at your local auto parts store. For this reason, you may want to consider a spare. We can ship replacements quickly, but shipping costs are expensive.

These bulbs may not be legal in some states and the user shall need to determine this before purchasing or using the bulbs. Bulbs in this section are warranteed for one year from the date of purchase. Return defective bulb to us for inspection and replacement. DO NOT return to our dealers. All RON FRANCIS WIRING bulbs are model and date coded. All bulb part numbers are trademarks of RON FRANCIS WIRING Beware of counterfeit bulbs sold as our products.

These bulbs produce slightly more heat when enclosed in a small housing that may shorten bulb life. Vibration and high alternator voltages have a major effect on bulb life too. Loose fitting sockets are usually the cause for the same bulb burning out often. Average life is about the same as an 1176 bulb.

Our bulbs will not overload a brake or turn signal switch.

Add life to your bulbs with a dab of Dielectric Grease in your sockets! Order part number DG-67.

SINGLE FILAMENT BRITE BULB Buy - B-1015

SMALL GLOBE - 50 CANDLEPOWER
Use: 1156, 1073, 1141
Locating Pins: Straight
Replaces: 1141, 1073, 1156
Auto Pts Candlepower: 21
Our Candlepower: 50

All our bulbs are specially designed by RON FRANCIS WIRINGand are sold only by us and our dealers. They are not available at your local auto parts store. For this reason, you may want to consider a spare. We can ship replacements quickly, but shipping costs are expensive.

These bulbs may not be legal in some states and the user shall need to determine this before purchasing or using the bulbs. Bulbs in this section are warranteed for one year from the date of purchase. Return defective bulb to us for inspection and replacement. DO NOT return to our dealers. All RON FRANCIS WIRING bulbs are model and date coded. All bulb part numbers are trademarks of RON FRANCIS WIRING Beware of counterfeit bulbs sold as our products.

These bulbs produce slightly more heat when enclosed in a small housing that may shorten bulb life. Vibration and high alternator voltages have a major effect on bulb life too. Loose fitting sockets are usually the cause for the same bulb burning out often. Average life is about the same as an 1176 bulb.

Our bulbs will not overload a brake or turn signal switch.

Add life to your bulbs with a dab of Dielectric Grease in your sockets! Order part number DG-67.

Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:44 am

Dan, yes it was your post I was referring to (I didn't want to quote it without permission). I understood what you were talking about regarding the angle of your lights. However, the same problem (not being able to see the lights in bright sunlight) does exist with the stock lights. I've seen it first hand on my buggy and Gary's. The lens that is used on the stock lights allows too much external light in from the sides and top.

To some of the other comments and suggestions: I am super paranoid about being hit from behind when I drive my buggy. I am always looking in my rear-view mirror to see who is behind me, how fast they are approaching, and planing an escape route. The mirror I have is small but it does provide enough of a view for me to be comfortable. My side mirrors are worthless. I was just looking for some ideas or tricks that others might have tried that would improve my odds that people will see me.

Side note: the people that scare me most when I am driving are those idiots that are putting on make-up, talking on their cell phones, and riding on my butt (some doing all of the above). I have on many occassion pulled over to let these gene-pool drop outs go by me.

Thanks for the responses.
Bud

Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:48 am

lostinbaja wrote: Ron Francis Wiring sells some high intensity 1157 and 1156 bulbs. I have them in mine and they do make a difference.

http://wire-works.com/lighting.php

Jerry,

Thank you for that info. I'm going to have a look at them. Question: are you using them in a stock VW configuration (wiring harness, tail/signal lights, sockets)?

Bud

Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:30 am

I have an idea. The HVAC guy that installs the duct in
the houses I design uses a shiny foil tape to seal the
joints. Instead of using black tape (my first idea was
to use black paint :oops:), I think that you could use
the shiny stuff on the inside. It might even make them
brighter. Just an idea :-k .

Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:35 am

GetPsycho wrote: I have an idea. The HVAC guy that installs the duct in
the houses I design uses a shiny foil tape to seal the
joints. Instead of using black tape (my first idea was
to use black paint :oops:), I think that you could use
the shiny stuff on the inside. It might even make them
brighter. Just an idea :-k .

Hmmm, hadn't thought of that (and I used to work for a tinsmith doing duct work, many years ago). I may give that a try.

Thanks.

Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:25 am

1madmanx wrote: lostinbaja wrote: Ron Francis Wiring sells some high intensity 1157 and 1156 bulbs. I have them in mine and they do make a difference.

http://wire-works.com/lighting.php

Jerry,

Thank you for that info. I'm going to have a look at them. Question: are you using them in a stock VW configuration (wiring harness, tail/signal lights, sockets)?

Bud

Yep, Stock 67 Beetle taillights and front parking lights with Ron Francis bulbs.

Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:36 pm

There is a bulb used in Honda cars, IIRC, that is VERY BRIGHT !
My friend has them in his Impala SS and when I follow him it looks as if his brake lights are on all the time. When he does get on the brakes they are very noticeable. He also has the foil lining the inside of the light buckets. Only issue is that these bulbs draw more power than stock 1157 or 2057 bulbs.

Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:05 am

For some of you the brighter bulb may be of help but when the lenses are tilted upwards the sun reflects off the lenses and makes it almost impossible to see if the light has turned on. This is the whole point of this thread. To let you know that the farther away from being perpendicular to the road surface they are the harder it is to see them. If they are tilted down they will be in their own shadow making them easier to see.

Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:54 am

On 62 to 67 beetle tailights with the bright bulbs, it doesn't matter how intense the sunlight is, the light is very noticable.
The quality of the light goes from the low end of visibility to the high end of visibility, basically as good as it gets.

You have to consider just how bright the RF bulbs are: Compared to an 1157 the low filiment is 2/3rd's brighter and the high (brakelight) is nearly 5x's brighter.
The Ron Francis 1156 equivalent is over 2x's brighter.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:44 am

I am having the same problems, sun light washing out the lights. I thought by going to the LED lights it would make them brighter in the back. The problem with me is the LED is too intensely focused to the center of the lens and doesn't fill the lens with light. I went with the 1157 super brights and noticed a HUGE difference. My brakes and turn indicators are now as bright as my third brake light. I can now stop and turn with confidence.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:59 pm

I had the same problem so I took aluminum foil and lined the back of the light bulb area so the bulb would reflect out. I know this sounds a little cheap but I was towing it and the lites were even dimmer than usual when it was hooked up to my RV. I just used what I had available but it turned out great so I just left it in.

Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:49 pm

Update on the problem I was having with the sun washing out my lights.

I took Jerry's suggestion (thank you very much) and ordered a set of dual filament (B-1077) and single filament (B-1015) bulbs from Ron Francis Wiring. I put them in and went out on a run this morning/afternoon in the bright sun. They are a world of difference from the stock bulbs. Very noticeable for brake, tail, and signals. I didn't do anything other than change the bulbs.

Dan, I don't know if they fit your lights or would even help since you noted your problem is the angle of the lenses.

I feel a little safer now that my lights will be seen better. I highly recommend the bulbs.

Bud

Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:16 pm

Eiko makes a halogen 1157 bulb that's killer. They're available from any m/c shop that is a Drag Specialties dealer, part no. H1157.

Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:13 pm

This subject is new to me, so obviously I am no means an expert, but here is a link to an article from webBikeWorld that talks about the possibility of excessive heat from halogen bulbs in plastic tail light assemblies:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-technical-articles/halogen/

The bulbs that Bud/1madmanx discussed above are NOT halogen.