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Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:58 pm

Envious wrote: pedro sainz wrote:
You got to be Kidding

I had rebuilt every month of 1964
except 03 64 looking for it for 15 years :)

now I don't need it Notch Not Mine anymore

You should have asked :)

just fallow my instructions so you don't Damage the Diaphragm

Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:22 am

Great article, however it raises a question for me, i removed the pump from my 63's original un rebuilt motor recently as part of the teardown.
in line with the numbering system, VW2 is an early style parallel port pump, but using the numbers quoted it makes my pump build sometime in 1985.

So its obviously been replaced, but i am surprised that Pierburg were still producing pumps for a car that had been out of production for over 12 years.
Maybe they were!

Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:52 am

260KMN wrote: Great article, however it raises a question for me, i removed the pump from my 63's original un rebuilt motor recently as part of the teardown.
in line with the numbering system, VW2 is an early style parallel port pump, but using the numbers quoted it makes my pump build sometime in 1985.

So its obviously been replaced, but i am surprised that Pierburg were still producing pumps for a car that had been out of production for over 12 years.
Maybe they were!

You are 100% Wrong :shock:

Raised numbers like yours on the picture are Replacements :)

Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:15 am

Sorry Pedro i dont understand your reply.
I guess it is a replacement, but the numbers are stamped not raised.

Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:06 am

260KMN wrote: Sorry Pedro i dont understand your reply.
I guess it is a replacement, but the numbers are stamped not raised.

There's a built up or should I say a step up we're is stamp
Look on page #1. Is a flat surface

Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:54 pm

Yeah ok i can see that difference. The raised bit, which must be a new casting. So my car had a replacement pump that was made on 7th January 1985.

Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:04 pm

260KMN wrote: Yeah ok i can see that difference. The raised bit, which must be a new casting. So my car had a replacement pump that was made on 7th January 1985.

7185. I had Not figure it out yet

Early Factory engines Only have Month and Year

There's NO Days on it

Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:47 pm

this is testing my work of a NOS diaphragm 4.2 :D

Wolfsburg West have a NEW Diaphragm redesign Available for $21.95
I bought it and test it

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113127141WW

left New Wolfsburg W
mid type 3 Original
right Old Wolfsburg W

left New WW right old WW

So Bye Bye Bye $80 hard to find NOS type 3 diaphragm

and remember to fallow step by step to restore it your self

thanks Josh Lucas for keeping your eyes OPEN and share this find :D

Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:16 pm

The part was brought to my attention by Soren - he owns an early Type 3 but isn't on Samba all that often. I passed the information along to Pedro because I knew if anyone could validate, it would be him...

This is great news because it means that not only are there new parts available that will work for the early fuel pump but NOS diaphragm prices should drop like a rock (although it doesn't necessarily mean they will...).

Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:12 pm

pedro sainz wrote:

this is testing my work of a NOS diaphragm 4.2 :D

Wolfsburg West have a NEW Diaphragm redesign Available for $21.95
I bought it and test it.

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113127141WW

So Bye Bye Bye $80 hard to find NOS type 3 diaphragm

and remember to fallow step by step to restore it your self

thanks Josh Lucas for keeping your eyes OPEN and share this find :D

I also bought that new WW Effee diaphragm assembly and agree, it's excellent! On the Type 3 pumps VW2 and VW6, I take the original spring off and put them onto the new diaphragm assemblies.

Those NOS kits myself and others have been saving have just plummeted in value! :D

Here's my write up in the bug forum for any interested.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=608309&start=60

Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:36 pm

wcfvw69 wrote: pedro sainz wrote:

this is testing my work of a NOS diaphragm 4.2 :D

Wolfsburg West have a NEW Diaphragm redesign Available for $21.95
I bought it and test it.

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113127141WW

So Bye Bye Bye $80 hard to find NOS type 3 diaphragm

and remember to fallow step by step to restore it your self

thanks Josh Lucas for keeping your eyes OPEN and share this find :D

I also bought that new WW Effee diaphragm assembly and agree, it's excellent! On the Type 3 pumps VW2 and VW6, I take the original spring off and put them onto the new diaphragm assemblies.

Those NOS kits myself and others have been saving have just plummeted in value! :D

Here's my write up in the bug forum for any interested.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=608309&start=60

Yes I also have a few NOS for my self in a Security Safe
And already bought 10 Diaphragms from WW
I'm NOT running out of these again :D

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:13 pm

During the recent Type3 Invasion, I had fuel pump problems with a Pierburg Squaretop type fuel pump that I felt I had rebuilt per the advice and instructions given. The tank was full, it was late afternoon and 92-96 degrees out. After a 20 mile run, during which the engine gradually sputtered more and more; the car gave up completely. A full tank of fuel. Plenty of fuel to the pump inlet. But absolutely nothing would exit the pump outlet. The immediate problem was solved by switching to a new style fuel pump. Back home, I tore down the pump expecting to find some catastrophic failure. But....nothing obvious. So, I started digging deeper. The rebuild was done with a kit from the local provider. I ordered a WW kit. Comparing them this evening...it became interesting. Given that the pump had plenty of fuel, but wouldn't pump I wondered if the fault was in the fuel cut off valve. The cut off valve seals against this port in the upper chamber of the pump:

The port has an OD of 6mm.

Here are three upper diaphragms. Left to Right: Just obtained WW unit, local provider kit, still flexible diaphragm from the spare parts box.

I took measurements on the section of the diaphragm that seals against the port:

WW unit: ID is 6.99mm. Very different arrangement on the way the seal is crimped in.
Local kit: ID is 7.16mm
Old unit: ID is 8.20mm

Also the WW unit will not seal since the outer flange diameter is larger than the diameter of the upper chamber.

Also notice that the springs are all different heights, and made with different diameter wire. The WW unit is clearly the strongest spring, and the local kit has the weakest spring.

My question is: Does any of this matter? What does an original look like and measure out to? Is this the source of the pump getting into a condition where it would not let fuel to the outlet?

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:40 pm

I have a NOS Pierburg kit in my stash. I'll try to remember to get some measurements from it.

Personally, I'd be more suspicious of the valves in the top portion. Did you change those? The reed valve or the bakelite one?

I recently rebuilt a square top pump. I removed both valves like I've done hundreds of times. The were flattened, seated, etc.. I installed a new WW kit with their previous upper diaphragm. I could NOT get this pump to prime or pump, nada. I took it apart, installed an NOS top diaphragm and spring and still nothing. I could NOT figure out why it wouldn't prime. The valves were perfect.

I have a pile of used cores. I took the top off one, put it on this pump body and it immediately primed. :shock:

I still have no idea what's wrong with that top portion. I'd read in a VW service manual that if a pump stopped working like this to replace the top portion of the pump.

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:20 pm

Have plenty NOS 100% Correct Type 3
If anyone need some 😁

Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:16 am

wcfvw69 wrote:
Personally, I'd be more suspicious of the valves in the top portion. Did you change those? The reed valve or the bakelite one?

On my original rebuild, I didn't change those. The local kit didn't have a replacement so I left it alone. I think this is also part of the problem I experienced. This time, I took the valve (that should be bakelite) out.
The WW kit had a bakelite valve. It is cut to small and actually falls through the hole.

The valve I took out is a piece of rubber. (In the center of this picture) And now that I have it out and examined, I know that some previous re-builder fabricated this from...."Something".

When I took the pump apart this weekend and dumped the residual gasoline out, the rubber had a "swollen" look to it. It has since dried out.

At this point, I've gathered a bakelite valve from another unit in my bone-yard.

I didn't mess with the reed valve.

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:15 am

Reported the issues to WW. They are going back to mfg to figure out what has gone astray. And refunded my $.

Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:32 pm

Some of the rebuild kits from the past few years had the rubber vs. bakelite outlet valve/washer. I experimented with one once and installed it. I couldn't get the the valve to seal and removed it and threw it out. There was clearly a reason Pierburg used the hard bakelite ones.

Good to hear WW said they'd address that with their vendor. Did the retainer of the bakelite piece fit in the pump housing? In the past, it was too small.

The reed valve setting is important. It can't have any gaps in it or it won't sell when the pump is pushing the fuel out.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:09 pm

Read through this twice, great help which appreciate, though have a question: where does the rocker fit regarding the washers? Sorry if missed the answer and thank you for the answer.

My thinking is this is why the rod keeps slipping off the rocker.

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:08 pm

My understanding was the fuel pump rod should have a maximum travel of 14mm, is this correct?

I was not getting 14mm in order to preload the fuel pump diaphragm, instead 13,30mm. Checked the pushrod length: 107,84mm.

Can I machine off 0,20mm off the spacer to correct for wear?

Thanks in advance. :)

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:27 pm

Adriel Rowley wrote: My understanding was the fuel pump rod should have a maximum travel of 14mm, is this correct?

I was not getting 14mm in order to preload the fuel pump diaphragm, instead 13,30mm. Checked the pushrod length: 107,84mm.

Can I machine off 0,20mm off the spacer to correct for wear?

Thanks in advance. :)

A 108mm pushrod installed in an engine should stick up 13mm above the bakelite/plastic fuel pump stand at its highest travel point. So, pull the fuel pump. Shove the 108mm pushrod in. Rotate the engine until the pushrod moves up to its highest travel spot. Measure how much the pushrod is sticking up above the fuel pump stand. :D