TheSamba.com :: View topic - can the engine from a 2000 ford escort ZX2 fit my bug?

Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:59 pm

I think that engine swaps are cool. Aborted engine swaps, however, are not.

Before you start, remember that the adapter plate is the easiest step. After that you have to deal with:

Engine Mounts (you need more than just the tranny for a heavier engine)
Radiator placement and air ducting
Swirl tank
Coolant line fab and routing
Exhaust and muffler
ECU if you're running EFI
Whatever sensors are required for the ECU
Throttle linkage
Fuel pump, filter and plumbing for EFI or carb.
Air filter
Instrumentation
Shortened oil pan (for some engines)
Several things that I haven't thought of at the moment

Have definite plans for all of these before you lay a hand on the bug. Nothing is worse than selling a failed project to the scrap metal guy.

Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:48 pm

Quote: Part of me really wants to keep it all VW. I admire Ian Epperson's Thing with the Type 4 motor in it, but Jack Raby gets a fortune for those things.
And they are worth every penny. I don't give my life and dedication away.

Quote: The 2056cc is $5469.38. He says he gets 25mpg, but Ian's only getting about 16 by his own admission, after tuning with a wideband.
Thats in a 181.. I drove that EXACT engine that Ian has 3,450 miles cross country in 2006, I AVERAGED 23.5 MPG at an average speed of 76 MPH across the entire continent. The best the engine saw was 28 MPG, but keep in mind that I had some 70 mile stints where I averaged 88 MPH.

I pulled the engine from my car in a friend's garage and sold it to Ian, he has that exact engine that I used for the test work.. In a 181 16 MPG is a reality, it has the aero characteristics of a smashed shoebox along with meaty, soft tires with lots of drag..

Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:07 pm

vindeta wrote: alright so i have a engine i want to put in my bug.

its from a 2000 ford focus ZX2.

4 cyl DOHC (dual overhead cam) 2.0 liter i believe

can i put it in my bug? (with adapter plate of course)

does anyone know how much that engine weighs compared to the stock engine?
i have a stock 75 transaxle.
the engine makes 130hp should that be a problem?
and no i dont drive with a lead foot......my foot never comes off the floor. :D

i also sent Kennedy a email asking if theres would fit.
what other companies make adapters?
so i can price compare.

thanks alot guys

Hey Dude,

I'm not going to freak out on you for wanting to put a "brandx" engine in your baja project. Its cool to think differently and try new stuff. But if your wanting a baja to ride with your buddys, put a VW engine in it. You don't want to be that guy who is always breaking shit or trying to figure out why it just stops and some white wire seems to be unplugged.

I get in phases where I get tired of one project and start another, and once I was going to put a turbo WRX engine in a bug. I "guessed" that it would only cost about 3k and it would be super SWEEEET right? Wrong.

Call Kennedy and price everything. be realistic and dont lie to your self.
Also the other custom parts you need to buy and make.

Tranny
Mounts
Wiring
Ignition?
Exhaust

not to mention labor of
Fitting the engine
Fabbing braces and brackets
Wiring it in
Body work
Rear suspension setup/changes
upgrades
Fuel system setup

Sure you could hotrod the ford or whatever engine, but you start to doule expenses in some areas. 2-cams, all the good timing assembly, etc.

Keep it simple if you want a reliable setup

----
Maybe a solid built 1835 or bigger
GOOD heads
Torque Cam
Good exhaust
Electronic or MSD ignition
Built a good bus or type 1 tranny with good CV's and axles

It will run forever and be cheap to work on. Plus the weight is probably less.

Just my experience man. Project looks good.

Have fun and do what you want!

Blackflag

Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:53 pm

[quote="Jake Raby"] Quote: Part of me really wants to keep it all VW. I admire Ian Epperson's Thing with the Type 4 motor in it, but Jack Raby gets a fortune for those things.
Quote: And they are worth every penny. I don't give my life and dedication away.

And I don't blame you. Your work looks phenomenal (from the website and pics here, anyways.) None of this discussion was meant to be an attack on you or what you've done with Type IV motors. I want one, in reality, and after 51 more payments to the ex wife I just might buy one. It's more my disbelief at how much it costs to exact what appears to be small improvements on ancient motors, when so much cool fast stuff is available for cheaper.

Quote: The 2056cc is $5469.38. He says he gets 25mpg, but Ian's only getting about 16 by his own admission, after tuning with a wideband.

Quote: Thats in a 181.. I drove that EXACT engine that Ian has 3,450 miles cross country in 2006, I AVERAGED 23.5 MPG at an average speed of 76 MPH across the entire continent. The best the engine saw was 28 MPG, but keep in mind that I had some 70 mile stints where I averaged 88 MPH.

I pulled the engine from my car in a friend's garage and sold it to Ian, he has that exact engine that I used for the test work.. In a 181 16 MPG is a reality, it has the aero characteristics of a smashed shoebox along with meaty, soft tires with lots of drag..

And that, frankly, I hadn't considered. I was so tunnel-visioned in on the antique engine architecture and the controlled fuel-leak that is carburetors that I hadn't really given that much thought to the aerodynamics, or more exactly, the lack thereof. I sincerely apologize for implying that your claimed mileage might not be attainable. My bad.

I suffer from the "if some is good, more is better" syndrome. I once went to buy a 24' ladder, but hey, the 28' is only $15 more! And the 32' is only $25 more! So I bought the 32', and then found it just/barely fit in my garage, and it was such a pain to get out I rarely used it. Doh!

I really, really like my 181, but it needs a bit more pep. That gets me looking at upgrades, and if some is good, wouldn't more be better? Why go 1776 if you can go 2276? If you're going to do that, why not Type IV? Oh hell, why not go Suby, get even more power with honest to god heat!

The mind boggles! And then I look at what it all would cost, and continue to putter around with my 1600DP.

I should find someone with a Type IV and go for a ride with them, and see if I like it.

Whatever I do, I'm going to Megasquirt it. Once you've been playing with injector duty cycles and widebands and laptops, it makes changing brass jets and reading plugs look like something you'd see at Amish Acres.

Denny, knows enough to know what he doesn't know...

Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:09 pm

Quote: It's more my disbelief at how much it costs to exact what appears to be small improvements on ancient motors, when so much cool fast stuff is available for cheaper
The reason why it costs so much isn't the time necessary to assemble one engine.. Its the never ending development required to keep the quality and performance at the level thats expected.

The other side of my business develops and provides engines for Porsche M96 powered watercooled cars. It takes LONGER to assemble a 2270 TIV engine than it does to build a 430HP X51 big bore 3.8 996 engine. What may seem ancient really isn't, I don't post internal pictures of my current developments on purpose.

Quote: And that, frankly, I hadn't considered. I was so tunnel-visioned in on the antique engine architecture and the controlled fuel-leak that is carburetors that I hadn't really given that much thought to the aerodynamics, or more exactly, the lack thereof. I sincerely apologize for implying that your claimed mileage might not be attainable. My bad
The Devils is in the details.

Quote: I suffer from the "if some is good, more is better" syndrome. I once went to buy a 24' ladder, but hey, the 28' is only $15 more! And the 32' is only $25 more! So I bought the 32', and then found it just/barely fit in my garage, and it was such a pain to get out I rarely used it. Doh!
That mindset just doesn't cut it with these engines. Bigger is not better, more really isn't more. I see people buy 82mm cranks because they cost the same as a 78mm, then the assembler realizes that he misconfigured the engine when assembly is complicated and the engine needs more head work to be effective.

If bigger was better we'd all be driving around with 10 liter W 16 engines with quad turbos.

Quote: Whatever I do, I'm going to Megasquirt it. Once you've been playing with injector duty cycles and widebands and laptops, it makes changing brass jets and reading plugs look like something you'd see at Amish Acres.

I first installed a programmable EFI system (Electromotive) in 1994.. Today 1/2 of what we provide is complete with EFI.

I have personal cars with both FI and carbs, carbs are simple and I appreciate simplicity.. I understand both means of fuel delivery and know the pros and cons of each. EFI isn't for everyone, neither are carbs and some people can't grasp either.

Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:33 pm

MConstable wrote: Inkedfireman wrote: See, now I'd be the guy cheering the 2JZ Supra twin turbo in a '67 Camaro, making 1000hp while weighing less than a SBC!

To me, it isn't strictly economy (I'd buy a diesel Jetta), and it isn't strictly performance (WRX STi). I love my VW, but must I accept 4 pushrods and carbs as the price of admission?

...4 pushrods? ;)

Doh! And I proofread that several times and didn't catch it!

Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:24 am

To give you an idea, here's build thread for a
1973 VW Beetle rallycross car with a B5254F (2.5l 20v 5 cylinder) engine swap.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=233443

Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:50 pm

dan242tic wrote: To give you an idea, here's build thread for a
1973 VW Beetle rallycross car with a B5254F (2.5l 20v 5 cylinder) engine swap.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=233443

Holy balls, that is truly ugly. Lot of trouble to go to avoid 'wrenching on an air-cooled VW.' Irony. :lol:

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:16 am

morymob wrote: GDOG57, as for the Focus engine for a transplant ,you are clueless,why don't u get some facts before u badmouth a product. Also any engine made after around '96 with a timing belt/chain that breaks takes out the valves etc,including the suby. The Zetec is getting to be a populiar swap for the vanagons and a complete kit is available-Google 'BOSTIC'.

I bought a Ford ZX-3 from a dealer near my home and he tried his darnest to have me buy something else. I found out that the Z-Tec motor is European engineered and expensive as hell to service. On the good side, power, lots of power and I agree, I prefer the Z-Tec over the Subaru waterboxer just for the availability of parts. If I ever need to replace my 1776 in my 73 Westfalia, I choose the Z-Tec just because of the price of the motor is so low and the motor is a great choice.