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Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:16 am

Call it something like "The Samba Special" :lol:

Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:19 pm

kiwisteve wrote: any views on what it should look like Leviman?

Hi I have send you a pm.

Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:37 pm

Here's a photoshop prototype based on the concept they might have used body panels from other Porsche and VW's back in the day.

Front is from a 356 with modifications, rear from a 550 Spyder and of course
the Ghia top, with modifications.

I'm working on another one, all based on VW panels.

Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:40 pm

That's really cool, looks a lot like an early coachbuilt car.
Paul

Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:22 pm

[quote="madfish"]

Here's a photoshop prototype based on the concept they might have used body panels from other Porsche and VW's back in the day.

Front is from a 356 with modifications, rear from a 550 Spyder and of course
the Ghia top, with modifications.

Here's another version based on all VW panels, with modifications, of course.

Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:21 am

hey Madfish, I love the design ideas! I hadn't thought of a 356 style front and it really works. The car looks very aggressive and in keeping with the period. Love the wheels, though not sure swiss-cheese style would stand up to abuse. Does anyone have any experience of drilling steel rims to lighten them?

The other mock-up is amazing. I must admit I also hadn't thought of doing VW inspired bodywork but it works. very French!

thanks for the ideas, keep 'em coming.
Steve

Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:42 am

When we serviced the Special last year it provided a good opportunity to become familiar with the car and chassis in particular. The original builder knew his beans, for example the rear suspension is completely hand crafted and one-off: the VW torsion bars have been done away with and the spaceframe mounts Porsche RSK inspired adjustable coilover springs with long, custom-made trailing arms mounted to the chassis well down to lower the centre of gravity. At the front the VW centre tunnel has been cut and re-welded at an angle to drop the front suspension height, effectively lowering the car without effecting camber, toe, ride height, etc.
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The front end doesn’t have an anti-roll bar but as they were fitted to VW’s and Porsche in period we can have a play with different ones to improve the handling if required. At the rear I’ll leave things as they are until we test drive the car properly with some shakedown tests on the road and track to judge whether the rear swing axle suspension needs to be tied down better with a period camber compensator bar from Speedwell. The front has also had a few torsion leaves removed to soften the front which was the right thing to do given the car weighs significantly less than the original. This means we can get away with pretty stiff roll bars and dampers if need be, as the springs won’t also be massively stiff, making the car bone jangling and skittish on the road. Obviously the rear is adjustable so we should be able to play around a bit there. Irrespective, it’s great to have something with a bit of adjustability in it and to have the challenge of chassis set up ahead of us. I might regret that last statement when it handles like a pig and we can’t get it to go round a bend! The only concern I have on the suspension is the amount of rust on the springs – does anyone have any views on whether these are good to use or whether I should try and refurbish or replace them?
[img][/img]
Anyway moving on, the chassis was built utilising the conventional Formula 1 wisdom of day (late 50’s) as used on the Cooper, with their (relatively) heavy tube chassis and it was obviously designed to be strong and rigid without a roof. Adding the roof has increased weight a but as it’s a stressed panel in its own right and has been tied securely into the chassis it should make for a really rigid structure. I must admit I also like the thought of something over my head – I’ve never personally been a fan of open top cars, in the sense of racing one myself. The car doesn’t have a rollbar, but it would be the one concession I would make today, tying something into the equivalent of the b-pillar that is used for the petrol tank/seat support. The side bar is the least pleasing aspect of the chassis design, as it’s not conducive to getting in and out, but it makes the chassis tremendously strong and affords some degree of side impact protection.
[img][/img]
The underside of the car is almost completely flat, which should clean up airflow under the car. I know I’m not going to be travelling fast enough nor would it be period correct to think about ground effects but it’s lovely to see so much thought put into making the car as clean and slippery through the air on the underside as I hope it will be on top. On the downside the flat floor is typical of Specials of the era in that there are no indentations or curves in the floor, meaning you can’t stand on it, but there are enough supports off the main spine to get in and out effectively.

The one real fly in the ointment is that after servicing the engine we suddenly realised – how do you remove the engine? Two hooks on the crankcase attest to the only design flaw I have so far come across. The roof was put on afterwards and the rear chassis tubes mean it can’t come out beneath or horizontally. So the only way will be to remove the rear screen and lift it out on a hoist or via a pulley in the roof. I spent ages searching for a solution (removable section of spaceframe, etc) but none of the ideas really grabbed me. Besides once you reconcile yourself with the idiosyncrasy then it just means putting in a pulley!
[img][/img]
Next update will be with the 550 Spyder bodywork mocked up. Cheers, Steve

Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:00 am

madfish wrote:

Front is from a 356 with modifications, rear from a 550 Spyder and of course
the Ghia top, with modifications.

That is hot!

Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:22 pm

This is a photoshop prototype that's based on the concept that they would
have completed the body using panels from a Karmann Ghia. With modifications, of course.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:46 am

hey madfish. thanks for doing this. interesting to see the different ideas and how they pan out. it beats spending two months mocking stuff up in cardboard and polystyrene blocks! I like the treatment of the doors and edge of each wing/fender as it blends into the door, aswell as the front of the rear arch: very Porsche Abarth like. Not sure the rear treatment does it for me as it looks cut short, but as i say it's great to get ideas like this. cheers, Steve

Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:03 am

kiwisteve wrote: hey madfish. thanks for doing this. interesting to see the different ideas and how they pan out. it beats spending two months mocking stuff up in cardboard and polystyrene blocks! I like the treatment of the doors and edge of each wing/fender as it blends into the door, aswell as the front of the rear arch: very Porsche Abarth like. Not sure the rear treatment does it for me as it looks cut short, but as i say it's great to get ideas like this. cheers, Steve

Steve, Thanks for the kind words. I've been operating under the principle that these guys were mechanics and NOT designers. Therefore, functionality and not design took precedence. Which usually means they would take the path of least resistance. The Ghia rear quarters follows the wheelbase, which required a shortening of the rear to fit the wheel wells.

A lot of the design also has to do with the placement of the Ghia top. It is
very out of proportion to the wheelbase. The hard part is trying to find some kind of balance. Now...if we were to move the top back...

It's interesting to play around with the variables.

Cheers.

PS. There's a trick in the first name of the racing team.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:54 pm

Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:18 pm

kiwisteve wrote: Love the wheels, though not sure swiss-cheese style would stand up to abuse. Does anyone have any experience of drilling steel rims to lighten them?

some examples of drilled wheels... Glockler... Petermax Mueller

Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:03 pm

madfish wrote:

Look good. Very nice, I like that.
Claude

Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:53 pm

vwclap wrote: madfish wrote:

Look good. Very nice, I like that.
Claude

Like! What is it?

Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:18 am

damn that is hot Madfish. that is real inspiration. I'm down at the workshop tonight so will get a couple of bits of cardboard out and mock up the doors and quarterlights, esp the higher door height. I love the chopped tail too. Thanks so much for doing this - it's making a huge difference to my thinking in terms of what the body will ultimately look like. Cheers, Steve

Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:22 am

Hi overrestored. interesting wheels, obviously standard wheels subject to a mad session with the drill! I've got a set of 4.5 inch 358 wheels, but they are a mishmash with date stamps from '58 to '64. I might swap them out for a period alloy rim if I can find something suitable, otherwise I'll leave it on date-stamped 356B rims. Any suggestions on alloys?

Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:29 am

madfish wrote:

Damn that is hot!! Looks like one inspired by the chopped off 910s / 917s hill climb cars..... very nice Madfish! Go for it kiwisteve!

Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:21 am

the blue photoshop with white circle on the doors kicks rear. As far as I can see, most of these old type race cars would have had stock vw or 356 wheels - Im not sure that alloys would suit it better, unless they were 356 carrera items but they would be $10k for a set if you could find them. I would stick with that set of 356 steel wheels you already have if it were me!

Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:27 am

Hi Simon. fair comment, although the US were using alloys and magesium rims in drag racing from the mid-sixties obviously.