TheSamba.com :: View topic - 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts

Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:49 pm

Captain Pike wrote: Vanagon Nut wrote:
yah Bill uses a toilet bowl + DV parts.
Neil.
DV parts with a twist. I sandwiched large rubber exhaust hangers where the muffler mounts to the oil pan.
So with the toilet bowl and the rubber bits I pretty much killed any vibration in the cab. It may buzz like nutz but I cant feel it. No cracks.
Oh yea,stock cat and muffler from a 2.1. No O2 as I'm CIS basic :D

Ha! So you aren't a purist! ;)

Neat idea. I presume this is to create less direct metal to metal contact.

My crazy p-side bracket will not allow this. Toilet bowl or not.

Neil.

Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:25 pm

Put a hard rubber biscut in the midsection and see what you get.

Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:30 pm

Captain Pike wrote: Put a hard rubber biscut in the midsection and see what you get.

But then I would have to cut up that awesome weld I did.... ;)

Good idea. Thanks.

Edit: there is a Bosal DV isolator between the big piece on acc. bracket and piece clamped to muffler.

Neil.

Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:13 pm

Hi all.

So am re-reading this thread, thinking ahead to finally installing hydro mounts.

I'm running my I4 @ 15*.

If I'm not mistaken, it seems the typical hydro mount installs @ 180*. To save time redesigning the Fox engine brackets or making new ones.....

Would the typical Saab, MB, Jetta Mk3 hydro mount work properly, and last, mounted @ ~ 45* as per pic below?

For now, I'd like to keep the exhaust et al (edit: meaning I will redo exhaust/carrier + poss. tilt engine to 50* all at once) and just modify the carrier (if needed) and replace Fox mounts with hydro mounts.

Thanks,

Neil.

Edit: included BMW mount pic to help me, and whoever, "see" if what I want to do is feasible. My guess is that other hydro mounts are similarly constructed.

BMW E36 mount cross sectioned:

Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:04 pm

My inclination (pardon the pun :P ) is to say that to work properly they should be installed upright but I'm not certain. All the stock installations I've seen were upright. Also, for the degree symbol try ALT 248.

Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:13 pm

Yeah, any incline will likely introduce an unnecessary side-load that may lead to premature separation of the rubber from the metal housing.

Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:33 pm

ALT 248 does not compute. Mac user. ;)

But you reminded me. "Option" + keystroke. (hunts through KB)

"Option" + K =

50˚

(Edit: well no. "Option" + K = ˚ ;) )

Which now shows up as 50%#730 in "Message body" window after hitting "Preview". Anyhow. Thanks for the lead.

Yah I "see" the load being spread mostly evenly, but thinking in extremes, that same part mounted with studs on the horizontal would not work well at all. Maybe it's worth the effort and time to modify the Fox bracket etc. so I can use a given hydro mount in the upright position.

Edit: just saw your post Casey. Thanks. That put some light on things.

Neil.

Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:51 am

Anyone know the approx dimensions (LxHxW) of the Audi 5000T hydraulic mounts mentioned above? Thanks!

Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:45 am

I can measuer one up tonight when I get home..
have a couple in the garage. but there were some variations (not by a large amount) across the years or by OE mfg or mount.

*waves from Syracuse to Ithaca..
kpbo wrote: Anyone know the approx dimensions (LxHxW) of the Audi 5000T hydraulic mounts mentioned above? Thanks!

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:01 am

Vanagon Nut wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, it seems the typical hydro mount installs @ 180*. To save time redesigning the Fox engine brackets or making new ones.....

Would the typical Saab, MB, Jetta Mk3 hydro mount work properly, and last, mounted @ ~ 45* as per pic below?

I just went out and checked and the Audi A4 (longitudinally mounted) 1.8T has it's hydraulic mounts located at about a 15º angle to earth.

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:33 am

My Audi 2.8 V6 hyd mounts appear to be perfectly parallel to the road, while my MB units probably sit at that same slight 15 degree rake

Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:31 am

Christopher Schimke wrote: Vanagon Nut wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, it seems the typical hydro mount installs @ 180*. To save time redesigning the Fox engine brackets or making new ones.....

Would the typical Saab, MB, Jetta Mk3 hydro mount work properly, and last, mounted @ ~ 45* as per pic below?

I just went out and checked and the Audi A4 (longitudinally mounted) 1.8T has it's hydraulic mounts located at about a 15º angle to earth.

Thanks much Chris and Zeitgeist 13.

I may use Audi 5000 (not sure if "T" or not) mounts. Based on posted comments, maybe less work than anticipated is needed to adapt my carrier + Fox brackets to Audi 5000 mounts. Haven't measured yet, but it am sure that I'll have to ~ 1/2 into p-side of carrier.

@ kpbo

I eye balled an Audi 5000 (T?) mount recently and took rough measurements. Pic of similar or same below

If I can find my measurements, I will post.

@ all. In Googling Audi 5000 mount images, stumbled on Alistairs web page of Frank G comments on mounts etc. Good reading IMO.

(Edit: I found) Comments on engine mounts near end of page: (to be of particular interest)

http://members.shaw.ca/albell/mounts_FG.html

Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:57 am

Neil, I had read Frank's article before upgrading to the Saab mounts. I even managed to email back and forth with him. We both concluded a rear torque type mount really was advisable. We had measured quite a bit of up and down movement of the engine on and off load at the crank pulley end. The torque mount made a huge difference in quieting down the interior. I was able to come up with one that connected to my hitch.

I had consider the Audi mounts, but was trying to do something with the original carrier bars. The Saab mounts have a very small footprint compared to the Audi and would work better with the stock carrier bars. Since you are using a custom support, the Audi ones should work fine for you. mark

Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:17 pm

rsxsr: good point about the smaller footprint of the Saab mounts. My motivation for using the Audi mounts was because they're nearly 1/4th the price of the Saabs. But considering Frank's experimenting, sounds like the Saabs might be the way to go.

With respect to the engine movement at the crank pulley end... I wonder if folks with Syncro TDIs have noticed the same type of movement you see in your 2WD?

Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:31 pm

My mind is drawing a blank. I know the Dasher and Quantum had a front mount for limiting movement. I just can't picture the front of an Audi 5000 enough to remember if they had one too? The movement is opposite of what you would expect in an inline engine. It is the transaxle that converts the twisting movement to an up and down movement.

I like to use things that are readily available. My torque mount is from a VW rabbit/scirocco. Some may recognize part of it. I think Frank was using something that attached higher up and then to above the license plate area. It does not need to be much. Ideally it is isolated without load. mark

Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:56 pm

rsxsr wrote: Neil, I had read Frank's article before upgrading to the Saab mounts. I even managed to email back and forth with him. We both concluded a rear torque type mount really was advisable. We had measured quite a bit of up and down movement of the engine on and off load at the crank pulley end. The torque mount made a huge difference in quieting down the interior. I was able to come up with one that connected to my hitch.

I had consider the Audi mounts, but was trying to do something with the original carrier bars. The Saab mounts have a very small footprint compared to the Audi and would work better with the stock carrier bars. Since you are using a custom support, the Audi ones should work fine for you. mark

Hey Mark.

I wasn't absolutely sure why you had done this. Good to know why. (not questioning btw. You know way more than I do! :) )

Speaking of engine vibrations.....

Franks article was also helpful in shedding light on one other possible contributor to my exhaust issues: my huge bracket between accessory bracket, Bosal isolator, and exhaust bracket. I doubt this is the case, but maybe my accessory bracket has it's own set of vibrations that are being transmitted through to exhaust. Regardless, the larger contact surface (4 contact points as opposed to 3 on DV) is allowing more engine vibrations through. Another item to address. ;)

Neil.

Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:33 pm

Somehow I missed this thread...

Have any of you guys saved your old engine mounts? I've been trying to track down an 83+ rubber mount for a mock-up. Does anyone have one of these laying around that they can part with? Clapped out is just fine for me.

Thanks
Chris

Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:37 pm

Sorry, I have two OE ones for an 82 with nominal use. The 83 was a side mount I believe. Maybe place a want add in the classifieds.

Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:43 pm

kpbo wrote: Anyone know the approx dimensions (LxHxW) of the Audi 5000T hydraulic mounts mentioned above? Thanks!

Not sure if this will help much, but since I just bought 2, have threw up some pics of Audi 5000 mount PN 443 199 381 C here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/VanaJettaEngineCarrier#5686889869343053714

Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:10 pm

Thanks! Any idea of the approx width (i.e., perpendicular to the line that bisects the 2 mounting holes)?

Vanagon Nut wrote:

Not sure if this will help much, but since I just bought 2, have threw up some pics of Audi 5000 mount PN 443 199 381 C here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/VanaJettaEngineCarrier#5686889869343053714