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Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:02 am

Suggestions?

Local VW shop says to loop it. Anybody got pics of this?

VW Kook and coworker says shorten it, but I'm not spending that kind of dough on a flange tool.

Not sure I like the idea of compression nuts.

Open to anything other options. Thanks folks.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:12 am

I just snaked it around a little more and an extra loop.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:18 am

If you are taking about main line from front to rear, I just took the line "past" the "T" fitting did a nice 360 degree loop and connected it.... The brake fluid does not care and once body is in place and assembly is done its become invisible....

Dale

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:21 am

you can rent a flare tool double or single at like auto zone or a similar place.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:33 am

new-n-old-vdubs wrote: you can rent a flare tool double or single at like auto zone or a similar place.

True, BUT have you actually found a place to rent the bubble flare you need to match the fittings? Or are you flaring both ends and doing a double flare splice? Finding the bubble flare version was going to cost me 12x that of a pre-done piece of line.

Dale's mod seems to be the most common, either the smaller bend as he shows in the rear, or just take a creative path from the outlet of the hat up front to the master, both will do the job without the need for expertise in the use of the flaring tool.

My $.02 if its worth that.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:58 am

When replacing the line in full bodied VW's, my local FLAPS sell the longest line that is 60". That is not long enough, so I do a splice union, and then calculate how long the second piece needs to be to reach the "T". If I am a little too long, the excess is under the rear seat. Or, like Dale, on a buggy, loop it at the T.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:50 am

Dale M. wrote: If you are taking about main line from front to rear, I just took the line "past" the "T" fitting did a nice 360 degree loop and connected it.... The brake fluid does not care and once body is in place and assembly is done its become invisible....

Dale

Thanks Dale. I'll look at it this weekend. Maybe I'll try a shape like an iron cross or a arrow or a bow even! On second thought, an oval works just fine.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:16 pm

It used to be common for automakers to leave extra brake line tubing coiled as a 'service loop'... for any future repairs.

bnc

Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:18 pm

I sell pre-shortened brake lines, clutch and parking brake cables. Just search in the High Performance Parts section of the classifieds.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=951047

Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:24 pm

Some folks take an alternative route to the rear. Instead of routing the tube along the tunnel it is routed along the driver's side rail then back through the stock hole in the rear to the tee. The excess is then used and no loops are necessary.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:31 pm

Theres a simple loop. If I had double that size line I could have just continued to wrap it and make another circle with it.

I got a little creative with the cross over line from the master cylinder to the passenger side.

For making smooth bends like that you can just do them by hand using some sort of large pipe or a can of soup or whatever has a diameter that is close to the loop size you need and wrap the line around it. It will smoothly radius the line so you don't get a kink in it. Its best to not monkey with it too much because it will start to look a bit like a spagetti noodle the more you try to bend on it.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:44 pm

All you need is a standard double flaring tool like below. Do the first half of the double flare which is the bubble. The little black pieces are what you need. Very simple. Also nice to put a bubble on a line that you want to slip a hose onto.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:56 pm

hottarod wrote: Theres a simple loop. If I had double that size line I could have just continued to wrap it and make another circle with it.

I got a little creative with the cross over line from the master cylinder to the passenger side.

For making smooth bends like that you can just do them by hand using some sort of large pipe or a can of soup or whatever has a diameter that is close to the loop size you need and wrap the line around it. It will smoothly radius the line so you don't get a kink in it. Its best to not monkey with it too much because it will start to look a bit like a spagetti noodle the more you try to bend on it.

It's OK to wrap the brake lines all around, they will work fine. It's not the correct way to do it and for me it will always look like the builder took shortcut.

This is the way I prefer to do it.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:12 pm

Yellermanx wrote: All you need is a standard double flaring tool like below. Do the first have of the double flare which is the bubble. The little black pieces are what you need. Very simple. Also nice to put a bubble on a line that you want to slip a hose onto.

Using a standard 45 deg double flare button is the WRONG way to do it. A double flare line nut is designed so that the line is at a 45 deg angle where it contacts the nut. The proper bubble flare shapes the line at a 90 deg ange where it contacts the line nut and puts the proper angle on the bubble.

Someone here mentioned compression fittings to shorten the line.
Compression fittings are ILLEGAL everywhere for use on brake lines. This is very dangerous! Compression fittings aren't designed to handle the hydraulic pressure a brake system is imposses. That is why all brake fittings are flare type fittings. So the line can't blow out of the fitting.

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 pm

As mentioned, compression fittings are a bad idea all around and the DOUBLE FLARE is very different from an BUBBLE FLARE (aka ISO Bubble Flare)

Yeller, the manderals (spelling?) in a double flare set and bubble flare set are similar in shape and job, but the internal shapes and finished products are very different. Tomorrow evening I'll flare some tubing with both types and post pics.

In the meantime, here's my pan with properly shortened brake line, clutch and parking brake cables...

Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:37 pm

double/ bubble are completely diffrent yes... but you must create a bubble before the double you see..??? i used just a autozone flare kit the first half of making a (double flare) is actually making a bubble[b][/
1. bubble 2nd step requires you to make the [b]double . [/b]

Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:51 am

new-n-old-vdubs wrote: double/ bubble are completely diffrent yes... but you must create a bubble before the double you see..??? i used just a autozone flare kit the first half of making a (double flare) is actually making a bubble[b][/
1. bubble 2nd step requires you to make the [b]double . [/b]

WHY DO PEOPLE INSIST ON TELLING OTHERS THE WRONG WAY TO REPAIR SOMETHING AS CRITICAL AND IMPORTANT AS BRAKE LINES?

You may create what looks like a bubble in the first step of a double flare but it is made wrong. Look at the pictures I posted 2 posts up. It is clear that using a double flare kit to produce bubble flare is wrong.
While you are telling others the wrong way to make flares, why don't you also tell them it is OK to use copper to make hard lines and neoprene hose to make flex hoses, oh and use compression fittings and barbs with hose clamps to join them. NOT!!! While it will get the job done it is not safe. This idea of using the first stage of a double flare is almost as bad as just using the second stage of a double flare and producing a single flare.

Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:33 am

You can buy "ISO" (bubble) flaring tools on Ebay all day long for $35.00. It's not the highest quality tool but it will get the job done and it will create a safe flare.
People are wondering why insurance companys don't like insuring dune buggys? It's because history shows that most of them have been built using unsafe methods and poor fabrication skills.
Your life depends on the vehicle performing perfectly, don't take shortcuts.

Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:39 am

lostinbaja wrote: You can buy "ISO" (bubble) flaring tools on Ebay all day long for $35.00. It's not the highest quality tool but it will get the job done and it will create a safe flare.
People are wondering why insurance companys don't like insuring dune buggys? It's because history shows that most of them have been built using unsafe methods and poor fabrication skills.
Your life depends on the vehicle performing perfectly, don't take shortcuts.

Very well said. I will only add
Your life, and the lives of other drivers and pedestrians, depends on the vehicle performing perfectly, don't take shortcuts.

Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:34 am

Got to agree with Dan and "Lost" on the bubble flair and construction techniques ... This is one reason I used loop method, I know its not really cool or maybe in some eyes not proper but it does not compromise the integrity of brake system either because I did not have ability or tools to make proper bubble flair...

A BULGED incomplete double fair is NOT a "bubble flair"......

And unless your flaring tool is specifically a ISO BUBBLE FAIR TOOL, its the wrong thing.......

Dale